Four Nations: Loss of Mannering a big blow for the Kiwis

Yeah.. His numbers shape like a world-class edge forward, but not a middle. Given the Kiwis have Harris, Proctor & Mau still available to them, the loss of Mannering is felt but not a significant blow. They need another genuine middle, particularly with JWH horrible in every test he's played. They're missing Matulino (surgery) and should have picked Paulo (Taukeiaho is injured). RE the 6 jersey; I agree, TL is a hooker/utility. Problem is Martin is a huge gamble. Not only is he young and inexperienced (only 6 NRL games), but he very notably struggled physically with the pace at NRL level. I'd suggest starting TL at 6 and injecting Martin off the bench for limited minutes, at least at first. I would have considered taking Ata Hingano on tour also, given the unavailability of Nikorima/Foran (don't rate Lolohea as a halves option).

Sorry, but that's not at all true. He plays there these days for the Warriors - but therein lies the problem. One of the (many) reasons the Warriors have been under-performing is Mannering's move to the middle to accommodate playing both Hoffman & Thompson. It was one of Cappy's (many) failings as a coach. Mannering isn't a middle forward. He just doesn't have the go-forward required. He's a world-class edge guy, and a great defender no matter where you put him... but good teams don't play 80-minute middles that average less than 100m a game while instead relying on wing-forwards to add those extra hitups. They just don't. He is a loss for the Kiwis, but since Harris, Proctor & Mau are all in the squad it's not a significant one - after all, had he been fit the temptation to mess with the balance of the pack might have been too great for a rookie like Kidwell, as it was with Cappy at NRL level. Matulino's surgery and Paulo's non-selection are bigger problems for NZ's pack - particularly after yet another Waerea-Hargreaves DOA performance.

One that the opposition teams have had difficulty getting past.

Token white guy

max I think every team needs a Mannering, but the NZ side already has 3 Storm forwards for leadership and are all outstanding defenders who play big mins. I have never seen Mannering as a middle forward. They have Taumalolo and he can be relived by Taupau or Taukeiaho next year. As i said their biggest weakness is game management, and in the WC they will have Foran and Te Marie Martin. I feel sorry for Johnson who is a dynamic runner but is used as a "Cronk' and he just cannot count to five.

Kiwis desperately need Mannerings defence in the center of the ruck..thats where Mal and Wayne would be relieved and where that side is going to be hurting..running hasnt been his game since Thompson and Hoffman joined the club..nor is he a bench player,made the 2nd most number of takles in the league last year club player of the year (5th time),takes the odd hit up,but you'll often find him as the dummy runner off Johnson who's usually scheming something with Bodene..but,true their 5th tackle option and general kicking game is in a critical condition..

Interesting stats Scott. How did Simon stack up stat wise prior to 2015? Would you have wanted the younger Simon Mannering in your team?

Trust me that Mal Meninga and Wayne Bennett would have never been up late at night wondering if Simon Mannering would hurt their respective teams. Reason; he couldn't. Mannering is clearly a good person, but he is an out and out defender and very easily replaced, especially based on his 2016 returns. He played long minutes, but still over 40 back rowers averaged more meters than him. To put it into perspective he only averaged 1.17 meters for every minute he was on the ground. 87 NRL players played on the edge in 2016 and 67 players rated higher than Mannering in this key stat. Crucially, he is not an impact player and if he does not start then he should never be considered in the top 17 players, and he would never start in front of Harris, Proctor, Ma'u or Taupau. Taupau, and later in the World Cup Sio Siua Taukeiaho can also play lock, but Tamalolo owns this spot and when his coach works out how to manage his minutes better he could be a tide changer for the Kiwis. With Mannering now out, this presents the opportunity for the Kiwi selectors to do what Bennett and Meninga do not want - bring big Kasiano onto the bench. All this talk is irrelevant if the Kiwis do not replace Thomas Leuluai and bring in a tackle five expert like Te Marie Martin. Leuluai should be the back up hooker on the bench.

Quietly confident it's England's year

Fair point.

Highly underrated in my view. New Zealand are a very different side without him. Hope he can recover enough to represent again.

I think his leadership and versatility, not to mention his workrate... is his playing ability so I think from a playing perspective he will be most definitely be missed.

Yes, but running output falls off a cliff for Mannering when he was asked to play the duration -- understandably so.

Remembering it's international interchange rules, he can come on around the 25 for Taumalolo, swap to the edge for a bit early in the second half and exit with 10 on the clock, not exactly a short shift. Down to the coach to manage the interchange correctly though, the Kiwis have forwards who do need a little more management than the Kangaroos pack IMO.

Agreed. But once he's coming off the bench we're talking 20-30 mins of game time - which doesn't really suit his strengths and why I think they'll miss his leadership more than on field contribution.

Mannering,Hoffman and Bodene all played 80 mins this season..

All technically true TB, but they can always have Tauamalolo and Mannering in the same side; neither is a particularly big minutes type player and it's also true that Kevin Proctor generally needs a spell late in the game -- so a player who covers lock and the edges has a particular value to the kiwis given they need a bench rake.

I've always been a big fan of Simon Mannering, an excellent player with a massive engine and good skills. Don't know too much about James Fisher-Harris so it will be interesting to see if he gets to have a go. For info second row Brett Ferres has pulled out of the England squad through injury and has been replaced with Leeds team mate Stevie Ward.

Mannering is a huge loss for the Kiwis. Hes missed the last 5 tests & the Kiwis have lost 4 of those. They have also conceded at least 3 tries in each of those tests so its his defensive prowess & cleanup work around the ruck that will be difficult to replace. The Silver lining is it gives young Fisher Harris some early exposure to test footy & he looks promising.

Simon Mannering is the epitome of every Rugby League recruitment director's dream. They don't come any tougher, resistant to pain and can play an any position with skill and passion. Super proficient in every function. All of his career to date, he has done the work of two men as though he expected that to be his normal lot. I fear time may have caught up with this great Warrior. Missing the 4N is a blessing. In 2015,at an after lost match interview, Simon hinted that retirement had crossed his mind. Since then the injuries linger and despite modern methods difficult to cure. If there is one person who deserves a premiership ring it is Simon Mannering.