Winx won again, gloriously. That wouldn’t be surprising except for the following:
- She beat true Group 1 opposition by more than seven lengths
- She beat them on an absolute rain-soaked track, showing she can run on any surface
- She’s won 16 top quality races in a row
- She’s won 11 Group 1s
- She’s now set to win six Group 1s in a season, equalling the likes of Kingston Town, Weekend Hussler, and Black Caviar
There’s only so far a champion can be compared. I wrote a few weeks back that Winx was close to eclipsing Black Caviar as she’s more versatile. She probably has now.
Makybe Diva was a handicapper who peaked for her big days, whereas Winx just keeps winning. Sunline was a magical mare that would be probably be running seconds to Winx across nearly every distance they’d match.
But put aside the comparisons to mares and other great horses for a second, because she’s better than that.
Winx is Australia’s best athlete right now. And that’s not just because Australia’s elite sportspeople are in a bit of a lull at the moment.
Many people scorned the idea when Black Caviar was named Australia’s ‘sportswoman of the year’ by the Daily Telegraph, who did have their tongues in their cheek while being fairly serious about the whole thing too.
The only disagreement I had was that Black Caviar should’ve beaten the men too. Michael Clarke was named the best of the blokes in that same Tele feature.
Winx is the elite of the elite where Australia’s best measure up across the globe, although that’s where things start getting contentious. Not all agree.
I abide by fairly a strict don’t-bite policy, but even I couldn’t resist when some Europe-based racing fans were discussing on Twitter how overrated Winx is by us Aussies.
The Europeans respect our sprinters but not our stayers, and possibly with good reason given what turns up to win our Group-level staying races.
But do they have the versatile Winx wrong? I asked Bloodstock Analyst Harriet Connor for a ‘please explain’ after some friendly banter which included the line “If you think Winx could beat all the horses Highland Reel has since beaten [following the 2015 Cox Plate], you’re crazy”.
While Ms Connor explained she doesn’t speak for all Europeans, she was good enough to go on the record on an Australian site with her thoughts on why it’s hard to know where Winx stacks up.
“It’s not that I am sceptical of Winx, I just don’t rate Australian racing as being on a par with Europe,” Connor told me.
“The best horses always eventually lose because ordinarily, they end up racing against other top horses. Frankel was amazing, but his dominance was dependent on running only at a mile, he just wasn’t the best over other distances.
“Professionally speaking, one of the key things we look at when evaluating the breeding value of a recently retired mare is the variations in distances she has won over.
“If she has quite a spread, say 2f+ [400m+] then we generally assume that she wasn’t raced against challenging opposition, nor can we necessarily determine what her optimum trip was, and this affects her value as a broodmare.
“Idaho (full to Highland Reel) caused a massive headache last year for Aidan O’Brien who said something along the lines of ‘because his dam [Hveger] raced in Australia, we’d no idea what his ideal trip would be’”.
These enticing challenges and stimulating opinion make the Winx story even more exciting. Should she manage to pull off the Queen Elizabeth, and go well in the spring, a big 2018 beckons.
Her trainer Chris Waller, who again sported that truly sweet bottom lip quiver after her George Ryder win, has pointed at next year as being the one when she might head to Royal Ascot.
That’s when those who scoff will be put firmly to the test.
Aransan
Guest
The weights carried will be the same in wfa races whether Winx races here or anywhere else. Horses that have won 16 G1s won't run in handicaps.
butch m
Guest
I think winx is very much untested as she does is only racing at set or weight for age and never against other horses under handicap racing because of all her wins she is looking at carrying 60 plus kg just now its 57 kg at weight for age most of the stayers carry 59 kg who race with her they carn,t beat her at the weights here in Australia just maybe if winx does go to Europe I hope they will fully test her over there because she won't be fully tested here.
Travis Peterkin
Guest
Can someone tell me why Winx done run into the breeders cup?
John
Guest
Blake is spot on, she has been beating horses who are not Group 1 class, its an extremely weak division in Australia just now, there is nothing of the calibre of So You Think, Atlantic Jewel, Its A Dundeel etc. Hartnell is quite poorly rated in Europe, certainly not considered Group 1. In my opinion Winx is a top class horse who could compete in international Group 1s but due to her continuing to run against weak fields time after time its difficult to know where she actually stands. She certainly doesnt get anywhere near the conversation with Frankel, anyone putting her in that conversation needs to seek professional help.
DJ
Guest
Or play polo three times a week including consecutive days in the weekends for 5-6 months every year until she's in her 20's with no stakes winnings
Raimond
Roar Guru
Now that we've opened up the conversation to all sports, can we ask if Winx could race three times in a week and then back up seven days later to run the final over a marathon trip? This is what pacers have to do to win the Interdominion.
Sean Blaylock
Roar Rookie
On March 12 2005 the 2000m G1 Australian Cup was won by Makybe Diva in a time of 1:58.73 - an Australian record over the distance across more than 150 years racing that still stands to this day. Not bad for an out 'n' out wet tracker.
Sean Blaylock
Roar Rookie
I would be interested to hear how you justify the comment that Winx would beat Sunline across nearly every distance. Sunline's record up to 1400m was 19 starts for 17 wins and 2 2nds including 2 Group 1s. Winx's record up to 1400m is 9 starts for 6 wins and 1 2nd with no Group 1s. I think if these two were to meet beyond 1400m then Winx would start a clear favourite, but up to 1400m I would be inclined to favour Sunline.
no one in particular
Roar Guru
She got donkeylicked by Lohnro in an Australian Cup and in Japan (because international performance is apparently the be all and end all)
Aransan
Guest
Black Caviar wouldn't be out of place in your list of modern day champions.
Razzar
Guest
Swanny, Maykbe Diva was an out n wet tracker, put her on Firm, she's as good as can't win or run on it. Right now listing her in top ten of all time looks precerious. Her lack of versatility was there with just two wins below 2000metres. One those in a lowly Mares event. An incredible stayer, in hcps. A lover of flemington when wet, and the handicapper in her last melb Cup, by many scribes and opposing trainers thought she got in at least 1 kg light. My three fav 'exciting' champs are At WFA. Have one thing in common, with regularity they let down and and blew their opponents away. Winx, Kingston Town and Lohnro.
Swanny
Guest
I love Winx . Outstanding champion Maybe the best I've seen But Can't beileive how u dismissed makybe diva as just a handicapper U lost all credibility with that statement She won a weight for age cox plate And won her third Melbourne cup as top weight and won her second on bog track .
michael steel
Guest
From what I know about sport, most winners aren't too interested in what the losers are doing. Same applies here. If you look at the Cox Plate. Let's say over the past 25 years , if you look at the losers you could easily find a case to discredit the winner. Super Impose of course beat the best field ever and Surfers Paradise a horse I'm not a fan of beat a crack field and Northerly beat Sunline and Lonhro. But aside from that you can pick it to pieces.Three years ago a maiden won the race, Fields of Omaha won the race aged 8 or 9. So You Think beat a field of handicappers and milers twice. Maldivian an ordinary handicapper, with less than $500,000 prize money, who's claim to fame was being scratched at the barrier in Caulfield Cup won the Cox Plate at huge odds. So how ordinary was that bunch. Octagonal beat a 1000 metre horse and a handicapper. It could be said Might and Power beat nothing when Northern Drake ran a place. And there are shock wins , like The Phantom Chance beating Naturalism and Veandercross. If either of those two won it could be said they beat nothing. Winx has won 2 Cox plates and if she wins a third, like Makybe Diva she will still have her knockers.
michael steel
Guest
From what I know about sport, most winners aren't too interested in what the losers are doing. Same applies here.
DJ
Guest
No One In Particular: "The best horse she hasn't beaten:" is Werther. Bowman surmised the Kiwi gelding is stronger than Winx. Australia's Best Athlete? Absolutely! But until she beats Werther, her claim as the Best Racehorse in the World is tenuous. Balmerino has to rate as one of the forgotten heroes of racing having placed in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe behind champion racehorse Alleged (Timeform rating 138). During 1977 he raced in New Zealand, Australia, the United States, England, Italy and France for an extraordinary 21 wins and 10 placings. Astounding considering he was bred by a humble dairy farmer in the Waikato and trained by unassuming trainer Brian Smith
Tony
Guest
It is going to be nice to watch her make these poms eat their words next year, keep talking ? she already made Highland Reel look like a 2nd rater in the Cox Plate. And i dare say if they meet again he will be going home with his tail between his legs once again.
Aransan
Guest
Phar Lap carried 10 stone 3 pounds (65kg) in winning the 1931 Futurity Stakes. Note that the 1933 version is given as "Weight for age, with allowances and penalties" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurity_Stakes_(MRC)#/media/File:1933_VATC_Futurity_Stakes_Racebook_P3.jpg Phar Lap certainly didn't escape the handicapper in winning that race and I would suggest that some of his other wins would be best described as wins in handicap races even though they were supposedly wfa.
Jamal
Roar Rookie
[QUOTE=Jamal] Interesting stats..not sure how to read them Winx's 2016 Cox Plate Rivals - What They Have Done Since **In finishing Order of Cox Plate** 2nd: Hartnell * 3rd - G1 Melbourne Cup (3200m) * 2nd - G2 Apollo Stakes (1600m) * 8th - G1 Chipping Norton Stakes (1600m) * 2nd - G1 Ranvet Stakes (2000m) 3rd: Yankee Rose * 14th - Group 1 VRC Oaks (2500m) 4th: Vadamos * 4th - G1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m) 5th: Awesome Rock * 1st - G1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m) * 7th - G1 C.F Orr Stakes (1400m) * 10th - G2 Peter Young Stakes (1800m) * 9th - G1 Australian Cup (2000m) 6th: Happy Clapper * 9th - G1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m) * 2nd - Listed Canberra National Sprint (1400m) 7th: Lucia Valentina * No starts after Cox Plate (retired) 8th: Hauraki * 2nd - G1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m) * 3rd - G1 Canterbury Stakes (1300m) * 4th - G1 George Ryder Stskes (1500m) 9th: Black Heart Bart * 2nd - G1 Australia Stakes (1200m) * 1st - G1 C.F Orr Stakes (1400m) * 1st - G1 Futurity Stakes (1400m) 10th: Happy Trails * 10th G1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m)
michael steel
Guest
Lonhro never beat Northerly either. Yet most experts have Sunline and Lonhro rated higher than Northerly. Go Figure.
michael steel
Guest
Correction. Bernborough won 3 Group 1 handicaps. Newmarket with 9st 13lb or 59.5 kg Doomben 10,000 10st 5lb 0r 63kg Doomben Cup 10st 11lb or 68 kg. Someone should make a movie about this horse. He probably deserves a six part series to tell the story properly.