The Queensland Rugby Union is getting the home games right

If you have to clean anybody out to win the ball at a ruck, you have no right to pilfer as a ruck is formed. Your whole comment is based on physically dominating any opponent at a ruck to win the ball. Which you cannot do. You have to beat them there in order to have rights to the ball. That's the laws.

Except Hooper can ruck and hits more rucks than anybody except for Pocock when he plays.

Timbo, And if Coles is sitting out on the wing, then he is not defending in the ruck. Same same. You real need to take your Hooper filters off your glasses and watch what he does. He is a massive defender, almost always has the highest tackle count and tackle busts, yet still manages to play loose for attacking options. Ardie's hair might scare you but Hooper is still a bigger unit, But why take my (and many others view). His fellow Wallabies seem to think he is pretty special and vote accordingly but obviously they also don't understand the importance of a traditionalist view. We now have 110 kg centres and 125 kg wingers. The game has changed.

Neil, Coles is another example that re-enforces my point, not detracts from it. He is fantastic out wide but he also knows what a ruck is and can clean out and protect as well. He is doing all of the jobs expected of a hooker first, and then does a bit extra. Would you like him if he couldn't throw a lineout? That is why I don't think Hoops is our best 7. A forward that can't ruck is a pretty big liability Weight Watchers aside, I would brown my daks if I saw Ardie or George running at me, Hoops, not so much.

Thanks for the nit-picking,. I am surprised you didn't point out that he doesn't actually drive a motor vehicle on the field either. Very helpful in distracting from my argument with useless information I used a bit of artistic license in my metaphor and mixed a clean out with a run from the base of the ruck through heavy defense. Things I have never seen Hoops ever do effectively

I personally didn’t dislike Higgers for playing loose as an 8 (Read has been doing it for years with devastating results and they are similiar players), I have distinctly good memories of him running down the wing. What happened with Higgers is, his game simply went off and it was almost as though he had lost the will to play hard. I’m absolutely delighted he has come back to Super Rugby and is playing so well and, at this stage, I’d have to say he’s the best choice for the Wallaby 8 by a long chalk. What you say about the 2011 World Cup game is correct, but that was also against a South African pack that required a man monster like Pocock. Rugby has moved on and the fact the South Africans are, like us, trailing the New Zealanders, should make us realise the dynamics and physiology of the players has changed. While it might be of concern to believe the Emperor is wearing less clothes, I’m not convinced Pocock is our future as a number 7 either. He is quite slow, adds little into line-out other than rolling mauls and he is certainly not a great ball carrier. If you limit your 7’s to being strong over the ball and in the ruck, it is a major limitation. Again, I suggest you look at a number of the Kiwi 7’s and you’ll see they have moved away from the Richie McCall model, to a faster, more agile brand. We are getting some new players now who are good ball grabbers, Tolu Latu being one. When he plays he gets at least a couple of turnovers. Finally, in walking past the possession, Hooper, like the Kiwi’s, is effectively blocking the other side , as they have to get past him to counter ruck.

It is rare that a night out at Suncorp for a Reds game is not a very good one. I am not complaining about too many of the refs calls against the Reds, but I am absolutely dumbfounded at his complete inability to referee two sides at the same time.

Hoy, you aren'te walking past opportunity for possession. When you walk past it, it is only your ball to use. Opposition must then come through you in order to take it.

And yet, remember when everyone hated Higgers, because he was "too loose" to play a decent 8 game? I have to agree somewhat with Timbo... Though I am surprised as the number of different figures given for turnovers by Hooper... because I hardly ever see them happen when I watch him, so either he is attributed turnovers that aren't his, or he is such a good one, he is like a thief in the night. Put it this way... there is no way, Hooper could have won us the game in the 2011 WC against South Africa, the way Pocock did. The turnover thing, to me, is the bag of the 7. That is his traditional role... when I was learning rugby, the 7 had to tackle, harass and get to each ruck first to try to either pilfer or slow... So I am traditional in how I want my 7 to play. But, I also agree with Neil... For so long, Australia has relied on the 7 to do the ruck monkey work. Our long backs are floppers and have been for probably the last 15 years on whole. A bloke as big as Sharpe getting stopped in his tracks against Argentina in Perth all those years ago is a case in point... Simmons on the burst against the Lions, and getting stopped in his tracks by the smallest fullback/player on the field is another example... So we have needed our 7 to do the work over the ball. It would be great, if other players in the Australia set up learned the art of 1) counter rucking successfully, 2) pilfering, 3) slowing the ball down legally by competing legally, but until that happens, our system still very much relies on the flanker... but when our flanker is a new prototype, then the development of others aspects of the game need to be sped up, or our system suffers. I have to say, the "controlling the space" argument to walk through a non existent ruck instead of going over the ball seems a bit ridiculous to me... It is just walking past the opportunity for possession. From a 7, it just doesn't make sense to me... but then, Hooper is the new prototype.

Good work on the big effort to attend Adsa, hopefully it might inspire a few closer to the games to get along.

I had read Nick's article, Timbo and agreed with most of what he said. He also used stats. Ardie Savea is taller than Hooper but weighs less. Like Hooper, he has amazing reaction times. Love watching him play and he, like Hooper, is the future style of flanker - there are a lot more coming through. The roles are changing. For example, the 'Canes have Dane Coles loose on the wing and not being a piggie around the ruck half of the time. No-one getting their knickers in a knot because he is not being a regulation hooker.

Unless you get there before somebody else from the opposition you have no rights to the ball. If you have to "smash the door down", which I take to mean wrestle somebody out of the way, then it is a ruck and you have no rights. Speed to the ball and to his feet is the best asset a 7 can have.

TWAS and Neil, I always flinch when I see some one use stats to sway a Hooper argument. They are almost always used without giving context. Good to see others recognizing that his turnovers aren't traditional 7 style Turnovers. To me they are burglaries - he is second on the scene after a player has got himself isolated and tackled, no-one was at home to protect the valuables just lying there on the dresser. Now I don't want to devalue this role, I have seen Adam Ashley Cooper, Niavalu and DHP do a great job of this recently. None of them were given a 7 Jersey for their efforts, it is just something expected of all world class backs. Now Smith's turnovers are more like an aggravated break and enter. Smash the door down, shove away the home owner and blast the safe with plastic explosives before taking off, engine roaring in a fully laden big rig bashing away armored police vehicles on the way out. Every world class 6,7 and 8 does this sort of work, it is in their job description. I have never seen Hoops do it, ever. Nick Bishop has written an article recently illustrating the differences between the 2 players. http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/05/03/wallaby-pointers-from-the-origin-destruction-derby/ He compares Hooper's open field prowess with Ardie Savia's and refers to it as a modern open side playing style. I think the comparison is partially right but has flaws, because I see Ardie kicking down a lot of doors and standing at the velvet rope at the breakdown stopping undesirables getting into the party. For me Hoop's shortfall in these hard man duties are not acceptable at international level and weakens the side overall as the game plan has to be changed. The number 6 and 8 picking up the slack. Just so we can have another 12 on the field.

I think your bias, Hoy, shines through. I don’t know if you looked at Hooper’s stats from last year, but his break down work was pretty good and, although I have no idea what the stats are this year, he would certainly have to be in the top 5 across the entire SR series. Maybe instead of being critical of Hooper, who in my mind is probably Australia’s top forward across the park, you should look at the New Zealand teams who have been doing this “weirdest thing” for a number of years including the All Blacks. Kieran Read was the first one I saw do it and it is now being picked up by most kiwi SR teams to control the space. As long as the player doesn’t play the ball, they upset the opposition ruck. Another thing about the New Zealanders breakdown strategy is that their locks do much of the hard yards in the ruck, which is something we’ve been lacking for many years with lazy, ineffective players such as Simmons, but hopefully this is changing with some of the new locks coming on board, such as Lukhan Tui, Arnold, Coleman and even the newly re-energised Carter.

Onya Rhys good to read your article, I travelled 1000 km to attend with a heap of mates, we had a great time, did not get the win but we were pumped to see Qld in Maroon, the same uniform we grew up watching them play in. The footy situation in Qld is a bit tepid but the spirit is there, so hears hoping the team can develop.

I would suggest Hooper generally isn't pretty poor over the ball. He remains 3rd for turnovers won in Super Rugby. Some players with less won may in fact be better than him but circumstances have favoured Hooper, but you cannot do that if you are poor. That cleaning out for no benefit is what coaches teach now generally. Some call it taking the space. You cannot get penalized for hands in the ruck if you essentially drive over and win the ruck.

I`ll bet you 1 kiwi dollar you have a wee wally..

I think the problem I have with that, is if it wasn't Hooper pressuring in the receivers, another player could do that role easily... but pressure at the ruck is missing for Australia, and that hurts us more than someone being pressured in the backline helps us. Hooper nabbed some turnovers on the weekend, but I would suggest he is generally pretty poor over the ball, and I have seen him several times avoid a confrontation at the ruck, where he could steal at best, slow ball down at worst... instead, he will either pull right out, or do the weirdest thing I have seen, instead of going down for the ball, he will step right over it and go through the other side as if cleaning out no one... for no benefit. IF the ruck ball was slowed, then the pressure on the runner would not be so crucial either. Just my penny...

Ta JJ

Thanks Timbo. I reckon Hooper and Smith are both excellent at getting their team ball, they just do it in different ways. Smith acts as a traditional 7 to pilfer while Hooper uses his speed to pressure defenders to force turnovers. They are also both outstanding in broken play, they have handling skills that put most backs to shame. Either way their team gets their hand on the pill, which is the objective, do I don't see why there should be a fuss that Hooper does it s bit differently.