Argentina has long been one of the most mystifying, captivating and bewildering outliers in the rugby universe.
It is believed outside backs were not discovered in this vast foreign land until the mid to late 90s and that the majority of Argie forwards are made up of the leftover chunks of fat, gristle and bone from the country’s delicious steaks.
The relative mystery they still emanate is due to the infrequent nature of scheduled tests before their Rugby Championship admittance, exemplified by the nine-year gap between Wallabies versus Pumas fixtures from 2003 until 2012.
I loved how you would not hear about the Argies for a few years and then they would rock up to a World Cup and bloody the noses of the big boys with hitherto unheard of Spanish names rolling off the commentator’s tongues bringing something seemingly exotic to proceedings – though it’s not hard when the entire Welsh, Scottish, Irish and English teams had variations on approximately five surnames.
Perhaps my favourite Argentina quirk is the fact they played one of my other most treasured things about rugby, the British and Irish Lions, in a match I had no idea existed until recently, in Cardiff in 2005, with the Lions awarding test caps for the clash and Argentina bizarrely deciding not to.
Until recently there was also an old-school violent streak that ran through their identity, such as the infamous punch-up with Wales in Buenos Aires in 1999 as well as eye-gouging incidents at the 1999, 2003 and 2015 world cups. With their shift towards playing attacking, positive rugby, hopefully we have seen the last of these sorts of acts which have no place in the modern game. if someone could alert Dylan Hartley about this, that would be great.
(Image: AAP Image/SNPA, Ross Setford)
The Pumas’ win over a broken Wallabies team in Buenos Aires in 1997 signalled the end of Greg Smith’s tenure as Australian coach, while the awe-inspiring spectacle of the two teams facing off in the massive River Plate stadium in 2002 has stuck long in the memory. While this Saturday’s encounter will probably not spell the end of Cheika’s reign and though GIO (always Bruce to me) Stadium is not as colossal or grand as the River Plate, there is a lot riding on this fixture that many would not have predicted a few months ago.
Argentina’s madcap series loss to a virtual England B team in June, coupled with the demoralising losses to South Africa, had threatened to send the Pumas’ back to their struggling initial Rugby Championship years; however, last week against New Zealand in New Plymouth they were able to summon the spirit of their thrilling 2015 World Cup run (especially the Ireland and All Blacks games), for 60 minutes at least.
That spells trouble for the Wallabies, who seemed to regress in Perth after the highs of Dunedin, and a newly confident, all-action Argentina is not the tonic they need to somehow claw back a winning mentality.
The exact same conversations about the Wallabies shortcomings have been repeated ad nauseam since the Scotland loss, so I won’t indulge again, but there’s a reason we’re still having them – Dunedin aside, everything feels the same, and a loss this weekend would make them odds-on favourites to claim the wooden spoon, as it would take a brave man to bet on them winning in Mendoza (one for The Simpsons fans) or Bloemfontein.
I still predict the Wallabies to win, but if Argentina is in the same position at 60 minutes that they were last week, I wouldn’t be surprised if those newly discovered outside backs and chunks of steak don’t let this one slip.
Fionn
Guest
Pirates, I don't know if you'll get the chance to visit as Argentina is a big country, but I've seen some documentaries on Patagonia, and it truly looks like one of the world's great and unique places. Hope you have a great holiday in Argentina, and look forward to hearing about it here... and about the food and the wine too :)
Fionn
Guest
Carlos, any time you're in Australia and are interested in showing a naive Aussie how to do and enjoy a proper Argentine asado and malbec, believe me, I would be very appreciative. :)
Shop
Roar Guru
Hi eeds, I'm of course going to the match on the 7th. Perhaps a cerveza before the game is in order? I don't know BA that well but can tell you it is too big and fast for me to live, awesome place to visit though! The rugby set up there is very passionately followed. Rugby in Mendoza is strong but still amateur. All the best for you move.
Carlos the Argie
Roar Guru
Kevin Johansen forces that accent. You should listen to him in Spanish. It is remarkable! And, of course, I am a Boca Juniors fan. If you like Astor, Caetano Veloso has a version of "Vuelvo al Sur" that is just amazing. Also Gideon Kremer is probably the best interpreter of his music now. And he his form the Baltics! Listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNBs-r77-fM You should also listen carefully to "Daisy, La Come Hombres"....
Galatzo
Guest
Thanks for the link, Carlos. The singer has an even worse accent, speaking Spanish, than I do. I liked the Madero but - I'm ducking already - liked the Boca more. And how come we got this far talking about the Argentine without mentioning Astor? I'm streaming Guitarrazo right now. Good luck in Canberra. I'll be wearing my Wallaby jersey while jugging a Kolsch.
Walt1010
Roar Rookie
I'm not a rugby aficionado but I have noticed than when the Argentineans managing a bit of backline play in an unstructured situation, some of the interplay is magical. In particular the backs have an ability to pass with soft hands, so the ball seems to hover in wait for the receiver. A thing of beauty. I always get the feeling that they are trying hard to play against the strengths of their natural game, and therefore lose far too often.
Carlos the Argie
Roar Guru
If you understand little Spanish, you should enjoy this song from, ironically, an American living in Argentina that has whole embraced Argie culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGlunBDvsaw
DavSA
Guest
Mzilikazi , sworn enemy of Shaka , King of The Zulus You have taken on a very illustrious handle. If one knows a little of the history and foundations of Matabeleland then they would understand why South Africans and Zimbabweans are indeed literally cousins . In a rugby context I am still amazed that Zimbabwe do not get a team in at least our Currie Cup. As you remember it used to be that way with the then Rhodesia producing many a fine player. If South Africa were really serious about development of rugby in this region then this would be a naturally progressive way of going about it . I am so curious why that hasn't happened . SARU appear more interested in developing rugby in Japan than on their own doorstep where imo they have a far better chance of a great outcome.
Andrew
Roar Guru
Cheers mate - it's not bad when polite discourse breaks out on the internet once in a while!
mzilikazi
Guest
Only reading all this discussion now.....this is the type of article and subsequent discussion that makes the Roar so great. When only the "good people"are involved....the guy's who are sensible, knowledgeable, down to earth and .....just really decent guys.
eeds
Guest
Cheers fellas, I'm on the roar 10 times a day but I rarely post. It's awesome to see something I invest time in so regularly work like a treat when I need it too. @Carlos - nice, my club is the marlins in the Shute shield. My experiences mirror yours in terms of playing at my clubs main ground but i can't say I don't feel the slightest bit of pride when guys I used to play with and against playing at all levels of the game in Australia now. I grabbed tickets to the wallabies - pumas match on the 7th in Mendoza actually. If I see them post I'll have to ask them a few tips as well. Re: club rugby- yeah I saw some on t.v last time I was in Argentina. I can't remember who was playing but it was an exciting game. @nobrain - yeah sweet, i thought the pool might be members only. From what I gather game day is Saturday arvo? Sounds like a good way to spend it if so...
Galatzo
Guest
Carlos - how I loved the coffee we used to order in BA. But since Starbucks arrived.... Used to order a cortado when I lived in Spain. Or cafe cognac which everybody drank throughout the day with no resultant traffic accidents. The hot chocolate was so thick it wouldn't spill. I miss a lot about the Argentine - like Bariloche where we used to ride rented horses that tried to bite us, and Largo Nahuelhuapi and losing money at Palermo. I catch up a little by reading Borges and still have copies of Hudson's wonderful books. BTW, cougars are found way east of CA. Even been spotted as far away as Tennessee. And as far south as Canberra of course.
Carlos the Argie
Roar Guru
Oh, how I miss empanadas! There is an excellent Argie market 20 miles from home and once every two months or so I go to get empanadas, but with no curry (WTF? curry in empanadas?). I also get chorizos and a blood sausage. Nobody eats the blood sausage at home, and if I look at it, then I stop eating too. It is one of those things better tasted than seen. Pas de double entendre, s'il vous plaît! The pumas here are in trouble. They are going to build a huge overpass over the highway to allow animals to roam more freely. Right now they are getting inbred so it is hard for them. They are stuck between highways and the ocean but they manage to survive and even reproduce! They need a guide to tell them where to go. Like the Pumas you have over there. Too much inbreeding and without a proper coach...
Galatzo
Guest
Hi Carlos. A Puma walked into the Empress Hotel, a huge, 19th century building overlooking the harbor, in Victoria BC a few years back scattering dowages right and left. Then another one was found in somebody's backyard about a year back. Even Salt Spring Island isn't safe. One end of it is about a half mile from the mainland and now and then a puma swims over. They call the animal control people, the puma's shot with an anesthetic dart and released in the wilderness. Then it comes back a year later. There have been no attacks on humans so far. I note they're up there in the Chaco close to Salta. What with the jaguars and the curry empanadas, the Argentine can be a dangerous place.
Carlos the Argie
Roar Guru
Well, you could always call them The Yaguaretés if you want.... They call pumas "poomas" here in Southern California. Maybe it is because of the high percentage of the Hispanic population. And, actually, where I live, we have quite a few pumas living sort of peacefully. Not far from the city, it is amazing! Here is the family of mountain lions, or pumas, near home. https://www.nps.gov/samo/learn/nature/puma-profiles.htm Interestingly, one of my neighbors not more than 200 yards from home, lost 2 goats to a "puma" early this spring. Next will be a wallaby in the diet. ??
Galatzo
Guest
Good chat from everybody, and a pleasant article, Andrew. Something Argentinians will have to put up with if they get an English language feed is the commentators calling the Argentine team Los Poomas. Even though the team was mistakenly named after a mountain lion, in English it's a puma, pronounced pewma. So while it's not incorrect to call them Los Poomas, it would be better to call them the pewmas more often than not. But however they're called, they're a spirited team and those high go-chase-it punts they put in against the ABs will be pretty effective against the WBs.
Nobrain
Roar Guru
Hi EEDS , as well as Carlos posted I go often to Belgrano Athletic to watch the games . Virrey del Pino 3456 is the address and anybody can go and purchase the entrance few minutes before the game. It is pretty cheap. The pool and all the other facilities are club members.
Carlos the Argie
Roar Guru
Nobrain is a member of Belgrano Athletic Club. You should ask him. BAC is where I played my first rugby and where I watched rugby for the first time, but alas, I never played FOR the club. And, as one of the biggest misses in my rugby life, I never managed to play a game at their site in Virrey del Pino. My biggest miss. You should ask Shop about Mendoza, he lives there now. There are multiple rugby sites in Spanish in Argentina. Many of the journalists are sycophants of the UAR, so criticism is very muted, but some have forums with fierce criticism. Watching club rugby in Argentina is very exciting, especially if you watch Top 14. They even have "soccer-like" crowds (though at a much smaller level).
eeds
Guest
Hey Carlos, I live in chile but I'm moving over to B.A next week. I was wondering if you had a good place to get club rugby news? I'd love to be able to get to some club games as well as have a new conversation topic! In Spanish is fine. Also I think I remember you saying you were a fan of belgrano and I noticed they have a Olympic sized swimming pool at their facilities. Do you know if you need to be a member to access this pool?
Sulzberg
Guest
I'd say a loss to the Pumas this weekend may signal the end of Chieka coaching tenure , that Agustín Creevy is the real deal...., he would make the bench for the ABs easy, not so sure about Stephen Moore. When they click they are hard to beat.