With the World Cup about to start, here’s an attempt at comparing the stats to come up with Australia’s greatest XIII across all eras.
For this exercise, I’ve only taken in to account each player’s achievements and longevity when wearing the green and gold jersey, not their interstate or club football careers.
That selection criteria makes it different from the Team of the Century that was named to celebrate rugby league’s centenary year in 2008. Players’ career performances at all senior levels were considered when selecting that team.
For example, prolific try-scoring winger Brian Bevan made that side, even though he never played for Australia. He only played eight games for Easts before playing the rest of his career (more than 600 games) in England.
So here are my greatest Kangaroos, with some debatable omissions in a couple of positions, and a surprise or two. One or two players have been slotted into their non-preferred positions to squeeze them in, but in those cases, they have at least played in the position for Australia at some stage.
Fullback: Graeme Langlands
45 matches (18 at fullback), 20 tries, 73 goals, five years as captain, three as captain-coach, two World Cup wins.
(Unlucky omissions: Clive Churchill, 37 Tests, 27 as captain, two years as captain-coach. Billy Slater, 25 Tests, 22 tries, one World Cup).
Winger: Greg Inglis
39 matches (six on the wing), 31 tries, one World Cup win.
(Photo: NRL)
Centre: Bob Fulton
35 matches (16 in the centres), 25 tries, one year as captain, three World Cup wins.
Centre: Reg Gasnier
39 matches, 28 tries, six years as captain, three as captain-coach.
(Very unlucky omission: Mal Meninga, 46 Tests, 21 tries, 99 goals, five years as captain, the only player to make four Kangaroo Tours to Great Britain and France, one World Cup win).
Winger: Ken Irvine
31 matches, 33 tries, 11 goals.
Five-eighth: Darren Lockyer
59 matches (34 at five-eighth), 35 tries, 31 goals, eight years as captain, one World Cup win.
(Unlucky omissions: Brad Fittler, 40 Tests, 17 tries, six years as captain, two World Cup wins. Wally Lewis, 34 Tests, 11 tries, six years as captain, one World Cup win).
Halfback: Johnathan Thurston
39 matches (22 at halfback), 13 tries, 170 goals, one World Cup win.
(Unlucky omission: Andrew Johns, 24 Tests (12 at halfback), 7 tries, 78 goals, two years as captain, two World Cup wins).
(Image: NRL)
Prop: Artie Beetson
29 matches, 1 try, five years as captain, two World Cup wins.
Hooker: Cameron Smith
50 matches, 9 tries, 42 goals, seven years as captain, one World Cup win.
Prop: Petero Civoniceva
45 matches, 2 tries, three Tri/Nour Nations series wins.
Second Row: Ron Coote
23 matches, 13 tries, one year as captain, two World Cup wins.
Second Row: Sam Thaiday
34 matches (21 as a starting second-rower), 2 tries, one World Cup win.
(Unlucky omission: Paul Gallen, 32 Tests (5 as a second-rower), 3 tries, one World Cup win).
Lock: Johnny Raper
39 matches, 11 tries, two years as captain, one World Cup win.
For the record, this was the 2008 Team of the Century:
1. Clive Churchill
2. Brian Bevan
3. Reg Gasnier
4. Mal Meninga
5. Ken Irvine
6. Wally Lewis
7. Andrew Johns
8. Arthur Beetson
9. Noel Kelly
10. Duncan Hall
11. Norm Provan
12. Ron Coote
13. Johnny Raper
14. Graeme Langlands
15. Dally Messenger
16. Bob Fulton
17. Frank Burge
chook
Guest
What a load of crap
qwetzen
Guest
"Kenny had a winning record over Lewis in the games they played against each other" Probably because of Kenny's fabulous kicking game... Silly person.
Boydy-In-Brisbane
Guest
Bahahahahah........ I was going to say the same thing. Oh please! I think it's pretty obvious Mr Coomer is a Broncos supporter.
terrence
Guest
John, I'm not sure why you, ahem, "Guru"' status flotsom jetsom on this site write these poorly articulated theses with hundreds of goal post shifting defensive reasons for your thesis holding substance, but basically the ongoing defence for article reading like absolute rubbish. Excuses: The sub editors changed my headline... The dog ate my homework... He played more than him but statically, yes, the other player I left out that you raised was better and more deserving, but... This was hypothetical... I forgot my medication again... Please re-read my article and criteria again... I have nothing to do today and I am starved of attention... I'm a big fan of.... but, he didn't make it because... Some of my best friends are gay... It's subjective... So where to from here for you? Write an article that doesn't have hundreds of caveats to the premise that need ongoing re-establishing for readers. Hope this helps.
John Coomer
Roar Guru
Yep and he earned 34 Test Caps, making him one one of the longest serving Australian forwards of all time, which as I explained in the article, was a criteria for selection. It's not the best Kangaroos 13 of all time, its about blokes who have done a lot in the jersey. The misleading heading was put on the article by the Roar's editors, presumably to spark debate, so mission accomplished.
terrence
Guest
Sorry John, Bagnell was right. SamThaiday is a good player, no doubt, worthy of his rep honours when received. But he'd barely make the 10th best Australian team of all time. Fair dinkum, give yourself an upper cut and pick up your crayon and start again. PS. Not sold on Inglis either.
John Coomer
Roar Guru
The heading for the article was changed by the Roar's editors, which is misleading. I originally submitted it as The Greatest Kangaroos (based on a combination of their achievements and longevity). Petro played 45 Tests, so his longevity isn't in question (far more Tests than other prop), and he was unlucky in that the World Cup was only played once during his 11 year Australian career (and NZ sprang an upset on that occasion). But as I mentioned in the article he did win three Tri/Four Nations series in the green and gold. That and his length of service earns him a spot in my opinion. For players like Fulton, Lockyer and Thurston, I took into account the total number of career Tests they played. Blokes that have the ability to have long stretches playing for Australia in two different positions are special in my opinion. Re the two blokes with 20-odd games (Artie and Ron Coote). Artie captained Australia and played more Tests than any other prop besides Petro. Ron Coote also captained Australia during his career, was successful and played more Tests than other contenders.
KBG
Guest
does research include watching all the games and attending a fair few of them? i'm sure we can all tweak stats to suit our arguments and clearly we won't agree on this - just another reason they invented beer. but 8 man of the match awards to one? no argument that kenny was a truly wonderful player but i agree with most of the comments here (and in so many other forums), wally is not negotiable. sterling played with and against them both and he has described wally as the greatest he has ever seen. if your half back picks another bloke, it is a bit telling. but this is not to denigrate kenny in any way. fabulous player. if we'd never had wally, then perhaps he'd be thought of the way most think of wally today. but we are never going to agree. and that is fine.
BleakCity
Roar Rookie
"but in state of origin games between the two, where they both played, qld with lewis won more than nsw with kenny" Only if you count games where Kenny was picked in the centres. In origin games when Kenny was picked at 5/8 alongside Sterling NSW won 7 lost 1. Purely & simply Kenny outplayed Lewis in origin and why Wally got displaced by Kenny on the Kangaroos tour. You need to do your research my friend - you'll be surprised (clearly the NSW selectors didn't either & were just as bad back then as they are now).
BleakCity
Roar Rookie
The article is titled "Kangaroos’ best all-time XIII" yet you (obviously) agree that Sam is not "anywhere near the best 2nd rower"... You say "each players achievements and longevity in green & gold". Well which is it? You pick Petro without a single world cup and others with just 20 odd games. You also pick Fulton (16), Lockyer (34) & Thurston (22) with far less games in their positions than others.
John Coomer
Roar Guru
Thanks Larry, yes you have understood the criteria I used, unlike a few others. I did consider Boyd for that 100% record reason you mention but at the end of the day GI having played several more Tests gave him my nod (even though he only played on the wing for Australia early in his career). I think you're right about the Kangaroos term being used to describe tours, whereas today it seems to be used for the team wherever they play, but I counted both home and away stats for the comparison across the eras regardless. I'm not sure of the politics that may have been involved in Langland's early career selection for Australia in the centres, but according to the stats he scored 12 tries in his 25 Tests there. And at the end of the day that fullback/centre versatility plus his more career Tests made me go for him over Churchill, but you could certainly just as easily go the other way based on Churchill's undoubted ability as a specialist fullback.
Larry1950
Guest
So the old guys would have voted through nostalgic rose coloured glasses and the younger guys would have been biased towards players they had seen, how do you rate someone sight unseen because it's very subjective. I saw Tulloch as a 7 year old kid & Makybe Diva as an older adult, the awe of seeing a champion back then is still with me but not sure if I was a good judge of horseflesh then.
Larry1950
Guest
Unlike a few respondents, I get how you've come up with the selections based on the criteria in your article but wonder if you considered Darius Boyd for a wing spot since I recall he's supposedly undefeated in around 24 games for Australia? Don't rate him above GI or Irvine but that stat was somewhere in the back of my mind. The other technicality I'd pick you up on (only from memory) is that I think Australian league teams used to only be classed as the Kangaroos when they toured, not at home. I'm sure that was the case when Qld's Peter Gallagher captained them once in the 1960's. As for Thaiday, I agree there may have been many better but on your criteria he can get a jersey & is not out of place if some of the NSW centric selections by bear54 are considered. I always thought Langlands got a spot in the centre's for Australia because they felt they had to pick him & he wasn't the best fullback around. His St George connections got him there quite often, was never a patch on Fulton or Gashier as a centre and my dad always said Churchill would have run rings around him as a fullback. He didn't live to see Slater but from what he told me, they played a similar style & were similarly built although the game was very different in each era.
Johnno
Guest
Same, the list is endless e.g. Sirro/Tallis/Thorn/Adam Muir/Dave Furner/Menzies/Hindy/Byron Fletcher just to name a few. Plus Clyde/Wayne Pearce/Bob Linder mostly played lock but could play 2nd row, and guys like Bird/Watmough were better than Sam Thaiday to..
Bill larkin
Guest
Interesting article, but I fully agree with others about Sam Thaiday. I've long considered him the most overrated modern day Kangaroo. In the best team of all time? Please. A solid but not brilliant club player. I would put at least 20 others before him.
Matt
Guest
He'd most likely play as a loose forward but still be the dummy half passer if his coach was forward thinking enough.
Johnno
Guest
Ray Price has to be there his stats are outrageously good. He was like Dally M lock of the year 5 times, was so tough as well... Lazo ahead of Petro, Eric Grothe snr ahead of GI. Guru was so good and big for a wing back then, ahead of his time a powerhouse ball runner.... Steve Rogers maybe ahead of Bozo, Mick Cronnin and Gene Miles damn good players.. Noel Kelly as tough as the come he was an awesome hooker... I’m tempted to put Billy Slater at fullback now, he’s that good. Agree about Locky being better than Wally or loz or Freddy or JT... Bob Mcarthy surely is better than Thaiday, he was ahead of his time....
Rellum
Roar Guru
Wally was extremely influential for Aus, even if Locky played more games I would still pick Wally over Locky ar 5/8th.
Cadfael
Roar Guru
In many ways this does discount a number of players. More modern players makke the cut because players retired early because the game was only semi professional. The money wasn't there to set players up for life as they can now. I thought the team of the century was better but with Sterling there in place of Johns.
Raugeee
Guest
He's such a brilliant footballer I imagine he would've found a place somewhere. Johnny Lang was the guy running round when I was a kid, I always have a bias towards him. Cam Smith played his first NRL game, 2002, at half back. Very versatile, in fact he feeds scrums as hooker now!