The Roar Podcast: What's the best way to judge a sport's success?

Only 2 trainings so far but definitely getting more out of it than I expected. Lots of fun.

Some of my most enjoyable footy came after turning 40 and deciding to take up Supers/Masters footy (I then partially regretted not having done so 5 years earlier). A meaningful premiership. A choice of post training/match beer or wine cohorts in the club rooms. I got to play directly on people such as Paul Salmon, Chris Johnson, Kris Barlow, Joel Smith, Mark Graham and Paul Hudson. And share the field with Tony Liberatore, Joe Misiti, Richie Vandenberg, Dean Rice, Cory McGrath, Stuart Anderson and others. These were players that never ever in my life otherwise would I share the footy field with. I've had a great 'ride' with it. That was in the Supers - and in our Masters there were often guys who'd taken the game up for the first time and were loving it - and the odd one would 'graduate' to the Supers - incl our premiership ruckman!! I hope you get out at least what you put into it and have fun.

Nemesis. Good article thanks. It did strike me - the author seems to be looking for the AFL to provide the solutions for grass-root community engagement. And of course there is a role for the governing body to play and facilitate. However, if the role of a local community sporting club is so important to it's community members - what is preventing the movement of locals to increase their support for their home footy clubs? Why do we need to look to government etc. for the answers? We will only be disappointed in the outcome of that search. Of the 2,913 registered AFL local clubs - I reckon very few would be sitting back waiting for some governing body to step in and drive the growth. That's not how it works. If the author is angling for an AFL team to enter the Tasmanian market - then as a courtesy to the readers - this motive should be more clearly articulated IMHO.

Aussie rules has certainly had issues with cowards playing the game in the past but this has been cleaned up in recent years,with only isolated issues remaining. All footballing sports seem to face 'danger' issues to some degree,soccer has had its fair share of fans being murdered watching their club play,but this has also been cleaned up,and while crowd behaviour is often still a problem,it's an issue the authorities continue to try and stay on top of thank goodness. With crowd figures,I've felt for a while all codes are exadurating the crowds attending their sports,I'd include cricket in this also. AFL and ALeague crowds are clearly not as high as they are said to be each week.

Just as we have seen in America recently, all these so called male feminist democrats who advocate women's rights have recently been the men called out as abusers, i think we will find the bloke talking incessantly about coward punches is probably the most likely to try one on. I think we all know who that poster is.

@Adelaide Docker Read this essay. Written & researched by a Emeritus Professor at University of Tasmania. https://theconversation.com/back-to-the-future-has-the-afl-lost-its-community-62100

Nem, 'alicesprings' hypothesis about the crowd numbers mightn't be accurate, but it's no less inaccurate than your continual accusations that AFL is a "coward punch sport" (utter rubbish) and that nobody except those in the southern states care about the AFL (also, utter crap). Besides, the crowds were pretty poor. I get it, it's the Gold Coast, and the two teams playing aren't exactly the best of the bunch this season. But 5,000 is a poor number in anyones eyes.

@alicesprings "Don’t think anyone seriously believes the announced 5k. " So, you were at the stadium? Or, at least watched the full 90 mins? Why should anyone seriously believe your hypothesis about the crowd number?

Makes sense I guess - the average AFL game attendance has dropped from 37k in 2010 to 34k in 2017 - with the introduction of the two new clubs in non-traditional markets. Bit like pruning the roses for the next phase of growth. It does however suggest - perhaps it's time for a period of consolidation. I was keen on a 19th club out of Tasmania - sooner rather than later. I'm not so sure today. There is always a risk in any industry of becoming - an inch deep and a mile wide. The game seems to be at a point where firming up the foundations is the sensible approach. And AFL Queensland is perhaps a good place to start.

Comical people having a go at AFL attendances. Especially when you have 'crowds' like that on the Gold Coast last night. More Star Wars characters than people in the stands. Don't think anyone seriously believes the announced 5k. I wonder what counting method they used??

If you follow the history of many leagues and the admittance of clubs you will note that new teams will drag the crowd averages down, when North Melbourne, Footscray and Hawthorn joined the VFL in 1925 crowd averages went down for a number of years, then proceeded to move back up, in 2010 the average H&A crowd was a staggering 37,000, when GWS joined in 2012 the average went down to 31,500, down from the previous year which was down again after the GC Suns joined ATM it has built back up to 34,000 H &A and the 2 new teams have been from areas where the game is not considered the main game in the area. Other leagues to admit new clubs competing with traditional established clubs find it hard ( with of course exceptions) Swan Districts who joined later in the WAFL is an exception, but Claremont which was not a foundation club has a very small supporter base, In Canberra every new club has found it hard to compete with the foundation Ainslie and Eastlakes of this world. I would say across most sports new clubs in established leagues with traditional power clubs which draw bigger crowds against other traditional power clubs will after initial enthusiasm drag crowd averages down.

AFL avg crowds actually below 1998 level:

Redondo - I was more referring to Nemesis/Fussy - I have been here for years and in this time I have never seen him with a good word to say about AFL. Calls it coward punch ball and yet I see today a roar player in Brisbane gets suspended for 7 weeks for spitting - honestly all the codes are as bad as each other, they all have their own problems and issues but this notion that this country isn't big enough for all of them or that the contest between them somehow matters is ridiculous.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/03/28/roy-morgans-rugby-participation-numbers-fake-news/comment-page-7/?no-cache=58dee4594db07 Roy Morgan is fake news - have a guess what - i reckon he is.

Rubbish they dont interview under 14's over the phone, which is how they get their made up extrapolated numbers. I would accept all codes club registered numbers, i guess if you dont accept the AFL's own numbers, then you dont accept any codes. So we are left with Roy Morgans which would be about the most rubbery of the lot. Here is the AFL link http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-30/football-participation-hits-record-numbers

I'm guessing they do 14+ because from that age the 'mum and dad make me play' effect is minimised. That is, a 14 year-old is more likely to have made their own decision to play and so more likely to become a long-term participant. Regardless, the stats are still a useful insight into trends. If Aussie Rules looked better if under-14s were included then that would be even more worrying for the AFL. Re the polling: why would anyone believe the AFL's own figures over an independent poll? How do we know the AFL didn't just send their crowd-counting woman around the grounds one Saturday?

Your stats are from age 14 plus, it says so in the article, it's really not fully representative Whats more explain to me how Roy Morgan gets its stats ? Are they talking about club registered or people that kick a ball in the park. They claim regularly - but what exactly is regularly ? Its just the poor mans poll quite frankly.. But really - explain to me who Roy asks ? - some 25 year old bloke on a phone or a 90 year old woman and then they extrapolate that out ? In 2017 the AFL claimed 371,311 club registered footballers across 237 leagues and 2,913 clubs and which was a 3% growth on 2016.

Aligee...as promised: Aussie Rules participation down 1% in absolute terms since 2001 (Football up 46%): http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7182-decline-in-competitive-sports-participation-australia-december-2016-201703200905 AFL avg crowds actually below 1998 level: https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

Cat, 'please explain' how you can compile a very detailed analysis on AFL attendance metrics on May 7th 2014 - posted on this very platform. And tonight you could care less about attendance figures as they are completely meaningless? If I had your IT skills I would cut/paste your article. Feel free.

Aligee...re localisms in the US NFL: https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/high-school/footballs-decline-has-some-high-schools-disbanding-teams-2/ http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-football-concussions-youth-kass-met-0906-20170905-column.html Baseball: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-hanby-hudgens/the-decline-of-baseball-a_b_9630782.html Meanwhile MLS has grabbed the key Latino and under 35 demographics and US Football's participation base continues to grow.