Australia needs a fifth bowling option but it ain't Mitch Marsh

Perhaps, but both of them are in poor form. Cartwright averaging 21 with the bat this shield season and Henriques, 15. I might not be a Mitch Marsh fan, but he is in much better form then those two at present. I would be more concerned about his return from injury as a bowling option.

Cartwright has batted himself out of test calculations this shield season to date. I get that there is some anti-Mitch Marsh sentiment around, but nobody with credibility can suggest Cartwright, averaging 21.60 with the bat and 110 with the ball for this shield season, should be considered at all. The debate should be about whether a fifth bowler is actually required, or whether Lyon's form this summer provides adequate cover for the quicks with a few overs from Smith, if needed. Should selectors choose a specialist bowler like Bird or Sayers or look at the all-rounder option is another area for debate. Given that selectors obviously are looking at a fifth bowling option and a pace bowling all-rounder at that, Mitch Marsh is significantly ahead of other contenders if current season form with the bat is being considered. There is no sensible debate for Cartwright over Mitch Marsh now although Hilton was near the front of the queue before the shield season started. Like Renshaw, he lost form at the worst possible time.

Pattinson averages 27 in tests and 25 in FC, so where did you pluck your "could become a 35 average test bat" from? Obviously, not from his past performances. Likewise, Tim Paine averages under 30 in first class cricket (his test sample is too small at this stage) and while he looks a decent batsman, he has looked like that for a decade at first class level. There is very little evidence to suggest Paine could average 40 in test cricket. I hope he does because that's good for our test side but, in all honesty, a 'serious' batsman would have scored more than one century from over 160 FC innings. How about we let him find his place in the test side at seven, even if he can average 40? Gilchrist averaged over 50 for much of his test career and yet he only batted at six in 14 of 137 test innings.

Add Doolan to your list of no second shots for test selection.

If the idea of the fifth bowler isn't to take wickets but to provide relief for the specialist bowlers, then there is no need for an all-rounder. Throw the ball to Warner and Smith for a few overs each and pick a specialist batsman. The reason Marsh is being considered is because they desire a fifth bowler who is a potential wicket taker. Marsh is that. His previous test performances would suggest he is far better suited to test cricket as a bowler than as a batsman. If he gets this opportunity, I hope his current batting form finally transfers to runs on the test scoreboard. It hasn't in the past and it left our batting lineup far too unbalanced.

A team full of right handers? Warner and Khawaja in the the top three, with Starc and Hazlewood is hardly a team full of right handers. Your last sentence is the best bit though. I can only reason that you have included yourself among the thoughtless masses. Marsh's current season form is pretty good, (no better than Maxwell who was the test incumbent though) and he has made the most of this new opportunity. I hope selectors reward his recent hundred with greater loyalty than they did Maxwell's maiden test century, made on the Indian tour.

If you want to cast yourself as one of those kids on here like Ben Brown or Rob, go ahead. Not much open minded cricket conversation coming from you.

Hi Don, the comment regarding the captaincy was light hearted. I am sure there are many fine leadership aspirants in Shield cricket. My contributions are based on evidence, rather than opinion or prejudice. Surely this is not a WA versus Australia debate.

'Goose?' How does that win an argument. They are both in form but the need is for a bowler. Maxi is no longer that. Those two are not competing with each other. All you have to do is read and think, Rob. Argument mode blinds you...and reveals a staggering paucity of basic manners.

"He hasn’t. The stats stand…unless you want to draw on irrelevant stats from many years ago. That has nothing to do with form. " So who on current form should be selected Marsh or Maxwell you goose.

Absolutely nailed it. But here we go with Mitch Marsh again. Just not ready!

Shaun Marsh was picked on his one day form this year, his shield form this year, his experience and maturity, the fact that he was left handed in a team of right handlers, oh and the fact that his first class averaged over the last 4 years is in the high 40's making him the best credentialed 6th batsmen. As a general rule the selectors put a lot more thought into selections than people put into their comments on here.

If Mitch Marsh does play to provide protection for our pace attack, it will the closest he has ever been to justifying a test all rounder spot on red ball batting performances. At least he has some runs on the board this time, in the longer format. Has he bowled enough after his shoulder injury to be the protection for our attack? That's another matter.

He hasn't. The stats stand...unless you want to draw on irrelevant stats from many years ago. That has nothing to do with form. Cricketers know that now counts, not 2, 3 or 4 years ago. Keep reading but I'd suggest following cricket works better.

Good spinners succeed though. Tony Lock, Tony Mann and, especially, Bruce Yardley made it their own. Greg Matthews also used the bounce well. Lyon will do very well at the WACA.

Unless you've been living under a rock, everyone knows MM has been captaincy material ever since the U19 WC. Another example of blind prejudice, Stuart.

Bird has a first class average of 10, Hazlewood 11 and Lyon 12. So none of them are the worst #11's going around, but they are still 3 guys vying for the #11 spot. Don't really want all three in the tail.

Oh I agree. I think that batsmen should definitely still be having a bowl in the nets and such, and having as many options who could bowl a few overs as possible. Though I suspect for many of them their bowling would probably be more like park cricket quality, still worth spending a little time working on it.

They picked MM because they like him. They didn’t pick Maxwell because they don’t They are boof smith warner and Maxwell has more cricket nous than those 3 combined and they don’t like being told anything

Stuart B, has torpedoed your stats with a good dose of the truth Don. Maxwell has jumped through every hoop asked of him and Marsh has basically been gifted a spot over him. I find it very amusing people are arguing the WACA pitch is more suit to Mitchell Marsh's pace over Maxwell's spin as a 5th bowling option? This is the total opposite selection process used in India when Mitchell Marsh was picked ahead of Maxwell for the first 2 games and bowled 5 overs and averaged 12 runs with the bat, on spinning pitches.