It was 2008 on a cold winter’s night. I was sitting in the 100-year-old stand (named after Keith Barnes the next year) with the new Roosters Recruitment Manager Peter O’Sullivan at Leichhardt Oval.
“Have a look at this kid”, Sully quipped. “He is only 15”.
Although the youngest player on the field “this kid” was the biggest, but was still one of the fastest with exceptional leg speed and had the rare ability to step off both feet at pace
His name was Vaai (call me Jason) Taumalolo and was recruited by the North Queensland Cowboys at age 14 while playing for a New Zealand under 16s touring team.
It was no surprise that he went on to become the youngest ever player to debut for the Cowboys aged 17 years, two months and 21 days, when he came off the interchange bench against the Bulldogs. It was Round 24 and I mentioned in commentary to Peter Tunks on radio that this young Jason Taumalolo reminded me of the great Arthur Beetson as he would create a nightmare for defences.
Fast forward to the 2017 World Cup, and Jason Taumalolo, still only 24, is now established as the game’s best big forward.
Arthur Beetson and Johnny Raper are the only two forwards named in the current list of rugby league immortals; both played in a different era with different rules and with no analytics available and limited vision – so it is folly to even compare them with a modern day player.
Sonny Bill Willliams and Sam Burgess were the two highest-rated modern day big forwards in my system, and the media compared Taumalolo to the great SBW in 2012 when he was only 19 after he played 17 matches for the Cowboys, scoring five tries off the bench.
Sam Burgess is the stand out best English forward in the modern game, but even he was made look average when he clashed with an inspired Taumalolo while trying to win a place in the RLWC Final for Tonga against the Kangaroos.
England won the match, but Taumalolo won the contest against the great Englishman running 222 metres from 18 brutal runs.
Displaying a massive engine, he made 153 metres in the second half that almost created a huge upset for his beloved Mate Ma’a.
(NRLPhotos/Scott Davis)
Taumalolo achieved 205 metres on average in his 26 NRL matches last season with Paul Gallen (183m), David Klemmer (167m) and Sea Eagle Martin Taupau (163m) the next best.
Taumalolo’s career really took off when Paul Green was appointed head coach at the Cowboys in 2014 and he made the call to make him a starting player in the top 13 at age 21. He was previously being used as an impact man off the bench, playing largely on the edge and often relegated to the Queensland Cup.
To start Taumalolo in the important position of lock forward (same position as John Raper) and play long minutes raised an eyebrow with pundits, but Green’s move was a master stroke which was to help bring home the club’s initial premiership the following season.
Green and Taumalolo changed the way a typical lock plays.
The wily former halfback knew he had a Rolls Royce and did not want to waste his ability to bust open a game by making big tackle numbers, which is typical for the prototype lock. He has the luxury of having tackling machines Ethan Lowe and Gavin Cooper on the edges and they also have been brilliant in covering the middle when possible.
Taumalolo averaged a respectable 28 tackles, but his job was to hit the ball up hard and execute a quick play the ball, and don’t worry about passing like an Artie Beetson would.
The coach knew that a big Taumalolo hit up and either Johnathan Thurston or Michael Morgan at first reviver would be a winning combination; it would be the worst nightmare for opposition coaches.
He does not have Raper’s cover defence and ball skills, or Beetson’s second phase play talent, but no player has ever dominated the middle like Tauamlolo has – and he is just getting started.
The argument as to who is the best big forward (hookers not included) ever to play the game is always good pub chatter, but statistically there is only one Jason Taumalolo. He stands alone at age 24.
He only needs to attain longevity to be the first non-Australian to be immortalised.
The astute Cowboys management have put up $10 million to say that is just a formality.
You would think Artie and JR would approve.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Nat Short answer is "no". It was a fundamentally different game then with different rules and different coaches interpretations. I will not go back further than 5 years when i am rating 2018 players.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Rod, It nice pub talk but its pointless comparing different eras for many reasons. Taumalolo gets all his plaudits from his ability with the ball but under Green his defence has also improved and his figures in 2017 in keys areas I look at all passed benchmark. He only missed 1.92 tackles on avg. every game and his Tackle Effectiveness was 90.66; these are excellent numbers that any forward would be proud of.
Rod
Guest
Incredible talent. Love watching the guy play. If there was/is a weakness he has been found out defensively ( he can tackle and put a big shot on) . This part of his game has improved dramatically , but it’s still not fantastic. When comparing era’s The game Pre super league is far different to what we see now. Could Lolo play lock, scrummage ,be as effective with a 5 m rule, with players tackling around his ankles , actually be able to play 80minutes and probably playing at the same weight , less muscle mass more flab and only training twice a week. I don’t know.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Larry, There are a few ways that i can measure the value of players, but I can say that JThurston has the highest points influence than any other player i have rated when comprising team handicaps. ie. Thurston addition to a handicap line will change the points margin greater than any other player.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Larry Green's rating as a coach has gone thru the roof after what he did last year and I am sure he will look at his list and work out the best way to use them. He also has to work out how he is going to use Te Marie Martin and he must be a contender for fullback, but likely be the utility off bench. He has some promising centres but not likely to be NRL ready.
Larry1950
Guest
Andrew Johns was built like a short second rower (barge arse according to his brother) so got that drive into tackles whilst JT just gets everything in front of the big forwards sent at him, mostly locks up the ball until reinforcements arrive. He far outshines Maloney & younger stars like Milford etc. Current coaches send a lot more traffic JT's way compared to Joey's day. When you put the rose coloured glasses on for nostalgic Andrew Johns running game, remember the pace of the game, speed and size of forwards etc has evolved enormously so it's hard to compare. He had a few good minders like Kennedy in his pack at that time and was a bit lucky to strike pretty lacklustre forwards in most Qld teams he opposed. Couldn't lead them to a win in the series against Vautin's nobodies, that's a blot on his copybook. Not bagging him but JT has played against supposedly the 'best nsw side ever' every year for lpthe last 12 years but keeps finding a way, often playing busted. You could play Johns as half & JT at 5/8 then your life is safe!
Larry1950
Guest
Got on to this article a bit late but glad to have a bit of rugby league discussion going, almost over cricket & expect tennis to wear me down over the last weeks of January. Love watching this man mountain take it up the middle but with Scott back & McLean arriving I can imagine him causing nightmares for edge defenders. On your comments re Burgess & SBW, I didn't consider Williams to ever be a big forward, he was around the Josh McGuire size when in the NRL. Played wide as a extra centre when most effective because of his ball skills, Burgess is more the crash & bash forward style. What's your view of how Green will deploy him in 2018 Scott, different role or just longer rests on the bench? With no serious injuries this season, the cowboys will have an awesome forwards rotation, pity their centres are pedestrian. I reckon Linnett is due for a shift in the second row but he isn't in their top 10 back rowers.
Nat
Roar Guru
Hi Scott. Is their somewhere we can look for a bit more details on the last gen players? NRL.com is all about the current gen Rugbyleagueproject has overall stats and achievements but nothing detailed around tackle effectiveness.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Baz We only have to wait between 5 to 7 years based on Beetson and Raper. He is a lot more than "just taking hit ups like props have been doing forever." as you put it. Big guys are not suppose to step off both feet like he does.
The Barry
Roar Guru
Fair enough mate. To my mind he's just taking hit ups like props have been doing forever. I'm happy to agree that he's more effective (over a very short period of time) than anyone else has been but that's because he's bigger / stronger / faster / more agile than players that have come before him rather than him doing anything revolutionary. Anyway we've got ten years or so to watch and see how he develops.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Knight, I would be happy with either if my life was on the line. When you rate a players defence it is not all about how many missed tackles he makes although that does weight highly. The reason why Thurston has a high missed tackle count is because he tries to tackle everything that moves and is not often in a good position, but what he does well is to get a hand on them slows them and allows a team mate to grab them. he is not your pure tackle machine but i would love him in my trench. Players like James Maloney missed on average in his 20 games last year 6.1 tackle per game and many because he was just lazy, you can NEVER say that about JT7. Big difference.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Knight, Again we do not know the rules that say we MUST wait 5 years+. Taumalolo has been playing NRL now for 7 years and played 130 games. Beetson played for 14 years for Balamin, Easts and the Eels in 221 games, Raper played for 12 years for Newtown and the Dragons in 222 games. It should be noted that there was no national comp with the NSWRL running the show.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Baz You are a hard man. I have never seen a big forward like him so in my book that is revolutionary.
The Barry
Roar Guru
Thanks Scott. I guess we’ll see if JT13 can maintain this form. If he’s still churning out these numbers in 10 years it will be an interesting conversation. I still respectfully disagree that Taumalolo has revolutionised the game. He may well do what he does better than anyone else before him but he hasn’t brought anything new to the game.
Knight Vision
Guest
There's a reason why it's a 5 year waiting period after retirement and thats to avoid the hyperbole that surrounds a player when he's currently still playing and avoid admitting a player not worthy of the sanctity of immortal status.
Knight Vision
Guest
fair enough. 50% of the game is defense and Thurston has been, is, and will be this year a turnstile. With regards the Johns v Thurston debate - ( your life depends on the outcome ) there's 30 seconds on the clock and ur team is behind, who do u want playing for ur life ? Johns or Thurston ? I think we all know the answer to that one.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Nat FYI, the best defensive half IMO is Cooper Cronk. Based on number of Missed tackles Per game, Tackle %s and communication. He has been great for a long time, something he credits Craig Bellamy with.
Nat
Roar Guru
I appreciate that's an opinion KnightVision and we all have them. Scott has said many times that we don't know the criteria for Immortal status, I believe 5 yrs out of the game (?) is at least one so the whole JT13 one is a long way off yet. However, to come back to your argument about Thurston, his stats are better than Johns in nearly every category. Is a banana kick enough to be considered revolutionary? A better defender than JT without doubt but I would argue John Simmonds was a better defender again and along with him, Toovey, Stuart kept Johns out of NSW #7 until they all retired and none of them get a mention in the immortal conversation. After Langer retires, his competition for Aust #7 was Adrian Lamb or Paul Green, both at the end of their careers as well. Further, Johns was surrounded by 10 rep players at Newcastle, JT took NQ to a GF and won a Dally M with only Bowen and Norton recognised Qld rep players. I know the criteria is different now from the RLW - Johns 'Immortal' agenda but by every category known, JT is on his way.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Knight, Andrew Johns was for a long time the greatest player I had ever seen or rated and for a long time I had Thurston just behind him at number 2, but in recent years JT has gone past Joey for a number of reason but his unshakable tenacity and influence on big games was a big one. Not only will he be an immortal, he has claims as the games best ever.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Adam, 100% correct.