Beattie: NRL must expand or die

Spot on. Good in the AFL for many reasons. Swans get good crowds but no one watches the. On TV. GWS early days but crowds seem inflated and you know the rest. The truth is the NRL despite its funny ways of doing things is ok. Just give it a go.

I would think PNG would be right up there with the other possible expansion licenses. They nearly defeat a full strength Broncos outfit over the weekend. I thought the PNG team can beat any other nrl team the way the game was played.

What a load of hogwash GOGWS.You saying you don't care either way, yet spend some time writing a long propaganda AFL tinged essay on why AFL is "successful"(and I use that description advisedly),into new markets.Suggesting no one else is capable of doing likewise. LOL You don't know what the NRL clubs want.Some are no doubt hesitant on expansion, others are pro expansion(eg the Broncos) who have stated they have no problem now with a 2nd NRL club in Brisbane. You fail to understand an extra time slot opens up additional ad space for TV companies and provides markets to national companies, meaning more money into the NRL coffers. And you do or do not understand monies received in prior NRL TV deals were well down on expectations,two clubs need to be taken over by the NRL,and since sold.,money expended on expensive consultants and a $150m digital dept.That eats into a limited money tree,that could be used for expansion. From 2022 that albatross is removed form the NRL necks. Melbourne has shown in the space of 20 years ,in a city that has a very small junior rl base, and i mean small by comparison to WARL.They were not gifted a heap of star players at the beginning ,most of the players in the 1999 G?F were tradesmen like first graders developed.The Storm already has over 20,000 members.They see the benefits of expansion. The Pirates take little notice of the press, but what emanates from Head Office.they have been working on getting into the NRL for some time.They will be entering junior teams into the NRL junior comps over the years to form a decent base. I too have a sober assessment of your commentary,and it smacks of your usual anti NRL pro AFL bias.GWS has been a costly exercise crowds average,TV ratings shocking in the NTHn states.Lions and Suns doing it extremely tough despite the many millions thrown in.And you have the audacity to suggest AFL expansion is some panacea. You've shown yourself to lack the research commensense on what the Pirates have been doing,the growth of their junior base,the financial backing in place, or the expected makeup of the commission with two new commissioners one of whom is very pro expansion. My other assessment whether I am sober or not,is the unease emanating from your typical pro AFL posts in rl threads.

@GOGWS, Go back to you Brainwashed AFL tab and talk aerial ping pong with all other the self-indulgent navel-gazers about how great the AFL is. We get! AFL is the sport of sports in the minds of indoctrinated people of Melbourne. Reminds me of how everyone in North Korea thinks Kim Jong-un is the greatest president in the world. Cant stand your Brainwashed sport and its supporters!!!

I don’t care either way. The NRL clubs themselves don’t want expansion, and nor does the ARLC (despite what Beatie has just said). Expansion won’t happen unless the NRL clubs buy in and support it. RL journalists and some people in the media are the ones pushing the expansion agenda...and now I guess also the ARLC chairman as well. I think a a sober assessment will mean that the Perth team is a long way off.

Whilst I can find plenty of faults with the NRL admin, one thing they really have never had is a chairman who wants to grow the game and actually spells it out.Rather than the limp wristed approach of the Gallops and Grants. GOGWS "Overallocate funds".Depend, the clubs are getting 130% of the salary cap, money in many cases used for promoting the code within their area, establishment of Cof Es. And the AFL in typical propping up mode, has had to increase its support to the GC Suns,to the tune of $25m.After a sponsorship slump.And they tipped in an extras $5.5m out of their funds. You have the Lions losing money hand over foot,GWS receiving large amounts in their area form head office.Yet TV ratings are abysmal. So please the AFL whilst having the money still has to do a lot of propping up.as you stated, so to bag the NRL for allocating extra funding is rather ironic. If the RL clubs continue to receive their funding, they are hardly going to make financial sacrifices.because any supportive funding will come from the NRL.And the NRL has made it perfectly clear, no current NRL clubs will be moved. And the NRL has nearly doubled the monies to be spent on grassroots. "Maximise cash in their pockets", and AFL/S15/A league players don't do the same LOL? Perth has been working on a business case for quite some time via the Perth Pirates.They are hardly last minute Jonny come latelys.They have the sponsors in place,a stadium, support from the West Australian.The population has grown dramatically there since the days of the Perth Reds.Their junior base is growing with new clubs formed.It's patently obvious you have not been doing much research on their endeavours . At least they are not going off half cocked, with we'll sell AFLX to the world.The propaganda dept is just mind boggling with some of the comments. Reading between the lines ,I suggest you don't want it(expansion to happen)"if its ever happens",It will happen GOGWS.And WA will be all the better for it.. See you lost the plot by citing the example" it could end in tears like last time".Do you actually know what happened last time? The Reds had to pay accommodation and travel costs for visiting teams then,that won't happen in the future.Secondly they were the victims of the SL war, when they decided to go to SL they lost crowds,which also happened on the east Coast.they were flicked as part of the peace deal.Thirdly by taking double headers,SOO to Perth,is a fair indication the code wants to grow the game.and IMO have a better opportunity to do so in Perth,where a prior team existed, and the interest and bids are coming from the locals. The time zone is perfect for the NRL and the eastern states for TV. Compare this to GWS which had no presence in Western Sydney,and just parachuted in with the AFL spending like there is no tomorrow.And the money being thrown at the Lions and the Suns is indicative of desperation to keep them afloat.Now the NRL is finally going to splash cash around,the AFL in teh Northern states will have to work that much harder.

Perth would be a gamble. Adelaide , no, don’t even go there. Another Kiwi team, no thanks the one we got is bonkers. Brisbane B team is one for the price of two. What is needed , call me old fashioned if you want , is another one in Western Sydney. Expand or dissimilatorialise.

It seems that the NRL’ typical mode is to over-allocate funds to the clubs/players and then leaves nothing for long term strategic investments. Not only doesn’t it allocate money for strategic investments, it spends so much it actually needs to borrow money to meeting current spending commitments. Some might say this is very short-sighted. The AFL now owns a major roofed stadium in the Melbourne CBD (aquired over ~20 years), and it is continuing to invest large sums annually in Suns/Giants - these strategies require significant short term sacrifice and not paying out every dollar of income to current clubs/players. Does the NRL have the nouse to work through viable strategic options, and can it resist short-termism from the NRL clubs/players who just want to maximise the cash in their pockets and spend every dollar rather than invest. On Perth, it’s pretty easy to say the words ‘we’ll expand to Perth’. Slightly harder is to work through a realistic business case, set out the costs and get the buy in from NRL clubs to make the financial sacrifices that will need to be made ( and the risk that a Perth may Take a long time to work, or not work at all). I’d guess we’re a couple of broadcast agreements away from a Perth expansion, if it ever happens. Finally, Beatie says “expand or die” but it may turn out to be a case of “expand and die”. There are no guarantees obviously, and the NRL may never make a decent return on a Perth team. It could end in tears (like it did last time). Interesting times. My guess is that Perth is 10+ years away, if it ever happens.

The other option would be for the Wests / Balmain merger to disolve, Wests go it alone as the Magpies playing out of Campbeltown, admit the Brisbane Easts Tigers into the comp as the 2nd Brisbane team playing out of Suncorp, and play 2 home games a year at Leichardt Oval. You regain a heritage side in Wests, you retain a side in the Tigers but now financially solid, you drop a team out of Sydney and you pick up a 2nd Brisbane side. Tigers fans would be like Fitzroy and South Melbourne fans when those sides were relocated. Their side is still around and they can go watch them whenever they are playing in Sydney.

Steve, I wasn't lumping them together I was saying any one of them would be suitable as a second team in the greater Brisbane region. "Why would an Ipswich team want to travel all the way to Brisbane" For the best rugby league stadium in Oz, that's why. Besides the train from Ippy to Milton isn't that long for fans. My brother and his wife travel from Caboolture each game. The public transport (bus or train) is included in the price of the ticket and Milton station is a10 minute walk. I would also say my preference would be for a Dolphins, Jets side over the Brisbane "Bombers". Geez the Bombers' got less soul than the Broncos and that took a long time to get used to. Dolphins and Jets have established teams and I dare say a bit of a feud with the Broncos. Bring it on Mr Beattie.

Thanks Don & SportsFanGC for bringing me up to speed on usage of Lang Park for Concerts, Broncos, SOO, RL Test matches, Q Cup Grandfinals, Reds games (RU), RU Test matches, Roar games (Soccer). I realise the State Government can change legislation to allow for a second Brisbane based team to play at Lang Park.

why is 20,000 the magic number before expansion? To get even close to achieving that the NRL would need complete control over the draw which isn't going to happen. I think Beattie is right, i am not sure if there is much more growth potential for League in Sydney but there is growth potential in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane and maybe NZ.

Only 2 words for BEATUP BEATTIE !!!!!! When the time comes for expansion that might be when each NRL fixture has a 20000 attendance average Much to do to build public confidence to encourage game attendance including player,coach and club reputations and behaviour One doesn't open another hamburger shop somewhere else if 14 out of 16 aren't in the positive frame

Can we please stop with the combinations of Brisbane/ Redcliffe/ Ipswich/ Logan and trying to combine them. They are 4 completely distinct areas. They all have their own regional councils. They have nothing to do with each other. Why would an Ipswich team want to travel all the way to Brisbane to play their games? Its ridiculous. Any Redcliffe based team would play out of a redeveloped Dolphin Oval, they wouldn't be playing out of Lang Park. When will people get it, Redcliffe, Ipswich and Logan aren't, in any way Brisbane.

No, John Ribot

It cant handle the number of games it currently has, it may be ok for League where the surface really does not matter but it is terrible every season for a least a few weeks for Rugby Union scrums due to poor quality turf.

Adelaide - no thanks Great selective use of stats Local a grade had bigger crowds than South's

This notion that a 2nd Brisbane side must have its own stadium isn’t viable. Whilst you can compare it with the WSW use of Parramatta stadium to put a case forward, I would use the comparison of Etihad and the MCG being used by multiple sides in the AFL. When we already have the best rectangular stadium in Australia and it can easily accommodate 10 - 12 more games we won’t see government spend on another stadium.

PaulC - I don't believe that it is strict number of events at Suncorp Stadium, rather it is a strict number of events where the crowd exceeds 35K people. The year I think you are referring to was 2011 which saw: 1. A revived Queensland Reds playing Super Rugby Finals including hosting (and winning) the Grand Final, 2. 2 State of Origin games in Brisbane, 3. The Broncos hosting the Darren Lockyer retirement tour (from memory they pulled a 50K crowd on a Sunday afternoon); and 4. The Brisbane Roar playing also hosting finals (and winning) the A-League Grand Final That combination of a perfect storm of sport required the then QLD Government to make an Amendment to the legislation governing Suncorp Stadium. No issues bringing in a second team, which will take years to achieve anywhere near average 35K crowd.

The strict limit on events at Suncorp is for concerts. Only 6 per year allowed. The limit on sporting events is that no more than 24 games are allowed per year with attendance over 35k people. In 2011 legislation was passed to lift it from the original DA cap of 24 games with greater than 25k people attending. We had the Broncos, Reds and Roar all drawing good crowds back then... The stadium can host as many matches as the field can stand outside of the 24 game cap as long as crowds are less than 35k. And of course should we see a second NRL side and a resurgent Reds and Roar the Government can always pass amended legislation. They own the stadium after all...