The stat that gets coaches excited

"effective offload" should but then I wonder if the same thing would be applicable for second + passes. Yep the stats definitely suggest field position is the key for defence.

It certainly was.

They actually made specific mention of the difference to the play the ball in Superleague. Apparently it was much faster than the years before or after.

I'll be checking out the PCM's tonight. Never heard of it before, but I don't think it helps us as fans. Probably came from Bellamy!!

Too true!!

Never even heard of Jai Arrow. Nene McDonald has been great. Should be in the Origin team. Is he NSW or QLD?

Thanks. Appreciate the insight. A teams hit up metres had more influence on their defence than attack? That’s interesting. Makes sense. When you combine good hit up metres and good kick metres, your opposition is going to be coming from deep to score. Offloads is interesting too. I think some stats now separate offloads and effective offloads, defined as the recipient making it past the point where the offloader passed it. I wonder if that would make a difference...?

Surely Woods won't get picked again with Vaughan and Campbell-Gillard waiting in the wings.

Tallis and Girdler player in the super league season, where unlimited interchange and super fast play the balls were the way the game was player. The sudden re-introduction of unlimited interchange did all sorts of damage to the way the game was played in retrospect.

I heard Tallis and Girdler talking about how play the ball speeds varied at different times in their careers. It was very clear that the players and coaching staff took very careful note of the time taken to play the ball after a tackle. I doubt anything has changed. I’m sure that coaches rely on qualitative analysis even more than we fans do. There is a limit to how useful pure statistics can be when comparing different teams and players. One set of statistics I have seen professional coaches use that I have never seen mentioned by anyone in the media is ‘positive, neutral and negative involvements’. It simply involves watching a player and noting whether they contribute in a positive, neutral or negative way each time they are involved in a play. The advantage of such an analysis is that it quickly reveals the players who pad their statistics with stuff like easy runs and being the third man to flop in on a tackled player, as well as those who make one or two spectacular plays each match but make mistakes that aren’t always obvious, like being in the proper position in defence. Such analysis can’t be done by the average fan because it requires watching a game at least 5 times. Coaches also have the advantage of knowing what the game plan really is, so when they watch a play they are a lot more aware of whether a player is executing a game plan properly and who is screwing up.

I still want to see passing stats. Passes per tackle Offloads per tackle and post contact passes per tackle. Post contact metres, metres gained, those sort of stats really mean little. It is like contested possession in AFL. Like others have said, you need to look at all sorts of things around those simple stats to see what is really happening. That is where maths needs to come in with some formulas to combine a bunch of stats to see what middle forwards are making the most impact with their hit ups(lets be honest, that is what this stats is all about).

Indeed. I think Ipswich tend to drift across the line a bit to much though. I personally think teams should be working the ball to either find a gap or get a one on one where a quality offload can get you though the line. One of the issues with modern offloads is that they are the result almost of attempts at post contact metres. Most modern offloads are from big guys who have dragged three defenders along, come to a stop for awhile, then a ball pops out the back. Whilst that sort of offload is OK, the defensive line has had time to organise themselves, As long as they haven't fallen asleep they should be able to handle that sort off offload. Much more dangerous is the offload that Hopate put in last night that lead to the Bulldogs try. One on one, out wide, passing to someone on the fly into a gap. The Contract Football method, not that I like that term should mean we see a team trying to get multiple one on one offloads in a set to keep the ball and score points when they can. It is the sort of football we saw in the 90's before the game went into full structured mode, with teams ignoring the rules on rucks and offsides.

Why not look at both?

On the woods thing, you may be surprised. Being taken slowly to ground isn’t an issue if it takes the attention of 3 (or 4 watching for an offload) as the extra defence is generally taken from the ruck area where the next guy runs. The era I looked at revealed some really interesting things. The guys that played along side Petro, Price and Luke Bailey all performed really really well... until they didn’t play alongside Petro Price or Bailey. It’s why I’m sure that the next hit up data would help prove a middle forward worth.

When looking at this stat, besides what has already been pointed out about 'what happens next', the picture is incomplete without looking at metres gained. For example, player A lumbers up (Woods?) gets caught at the five metre mark and makes five post contact metres for a total of ten metres. Player B gets tackled at the ten metre mark and is tackled on the spot for a gain of 10 metres. What is the better 10 metres? The play the ball speed is probably the answer. As pointed out elsewhere, if player B is stopped at the ten metre point, the defence has to get back ten metres rapidly. If they get met at the five metre point and wrestle my way forward to the 10m point, the defence can slowly move back. It would seem to me, total metres per run and play the ball speed is far more important than post contact metres.