Reds coach slams door shut on Quade Cooper

" You are literally contradicting yourself, saying that Foley receives no criticism, and then proceeding to detail several of his mistakes! " Us critics do not matter John R, Foley never gets criticized by the people that really count in OZ rugby, that is why Foley is still there ( They have all turned blind eyes to all of his mistakes over 4 years ) Michael Cheika and coaching staff, Fox Sports Commentators and RA.

canadiankiwi 2011 ?? 7 years ago?? .Move on ya Chully Bun. Thorn needs to be sacked immediately.

How many points has Foley missed for the Wallabies ?. I`d day over 200 easily.

^ Are you a Queenslander ? If not, you wouldn't understand.

Fionn - Since Foley and Beale will both be playing a lot of minutes since they have no genuine backups (in Cheika's squad) , in fact Beale could be Foley's backup I hope he alternates who drops back to lessen the tackling load. If Foley is always tackling in the front line he won't last to the rwc.

I looked at the stats for Foley's defence last week, and he is making a lot more tackles than he ever did in the past. I hope that Cheika gets him to defend at 10 this season and the only player he has drop back is Beale, who I think offers more of a counter attacking threat anyway.

The stupid thing it's his cheerleaders out of Sydney that have put this pressure on Foley that sees his performances heavily critiqued - simply because they've talked him up so much. On the whole, Foley is a very likable player. But when people are telling you he's this superstar goal kicker and one of the top 10's in the world, rightly people say "hang on... What about X, Y & Z, etc.".

Ah you're right, I forgot Lance had signed on overseas. For what it's worth, I take him being called the Iceman as a bit of a gee up at this stage. Seems that most people on here who use it, only do so to denigrate. And fair enough, he's certainly not above criticism, and a nickname like that carries a lot of weight of expectation.

John, he's already signed overseas at the end of the season, there is thus zero chance of him being a Wallaby now. I'm not contradicting myself: I said that Foley does receive some criticism, but it is limited compared to what Quade receives (except for a vocal minority of fans) and he is not generally remembered for his errors: he's known as the 'Iceman' not the 'intercept-man' or 'charge-down under pressure man' or 'missing goals under pressure man'. Most people—even myself—acknowledge that this year he is really the only option at 10, and he has been receiving nothing but praise for his recent performances, which have been very good.

In the context of players eligible for the Wallabies, Lance is literally the only starting super rugby ten that has at least been in the squad. You are literally contradicting yourself, saying that Foley receives no criticism, and then proceeding to detail several of his mistakes! Mistakes which he has been dragged over the coals for innumerable times, not just by yourself either. I will agree that Quade does receive more public scrutiny,

John, I think that the reason that Foley would get more criticism is because (1) Lance is not seriously in the fold for a Wallaby spot and is so judged to a lower standard (2) a certain camp has already been clamouring for Quade to take over as flyhalf for the Reds and (3) the other group that want Quade gone recognise that Lance is the only other viable option. And I have seen lots of people criticise Lance's performance, and Lance in general. However, I think you will admit that Quade is judged far more harshly than Foley. People still talk about Quade kicking it out on the full 7 years ago, but Foley is not remembered for his intercept against the Jaguares, his perfect intercept against Scotland, his two intercepts against Adriaan Strauss that almost cost us against the worst Bok side of all time and all of his charge downs. He is still known as the 'Iceman' despite all the intercepts he throws, all the kicks he has charged down and some truly horrendous goal-kicking performances, like in Dunedin last year when if he had made the easy kicks the Wallabies would probably have had a famous victory over the All Blacks in New Zealand.

Got off because it wasn't 2 in the same game to the same bloke!

If Foley had thrown that forward pass/intercept, the knives would have (rightly) been out in huge numbers. Lance has escaped that criticism 100% (up until now) from what I've seen.

They've conceded 40 points the last two weeks, and both to Australian teams, not Kiwi ones...

He may have. But he's struggled to help the Reds score tries and was pretty average on Saturday night. Just because he played a couple of seasons in WA it doesn't make him completely immune from criticism.

So because Thorn has chosen to make the team younger he has to be given 3 years?

Maybe not. But Thorn doesn't have an eternity to build a team. He needs to show improvement. And that isn't the case right now.

So every player who starts in a team that doesn't do well is automatically a bad player? The fact is the Reds were dramatically improved in the games he played vs the 3 he missed. They scored more tries and conceded less tries with Cooper.

They've given up 45 and 37 points in their last 2 games and are still yet to face an NZ team... And the old "the attack will come" logic has never worked for any team in Super Rugby.

And despite that the Reds are giving up more tries per game this year, than they did last year in the games Quade played. Seems like that inadequate ability was able to work better than the players he's chosen in his place. And that's before you consider the huge drop in tries scored per game by the Reds.