The problem with modern day football

Perhaps should read.......The problem with modern day ENGLISH football!

Fair enough j b I certainly remember cloughy and what he achieved with derby and forest

Kangas - like most other football fans you have fallen under the spell cast by media commentators as how the game has changed over the last 20 years due to men like Wenger and Ferguson,but in fact these 2 men are only 2 of the many who have made tactical changes as to how our game has changed.and, more importantly, how the English game has been affected by the removal of "blocks" that slowed the importation of "foreign" players into the English game. Tactically the game ,not in England but in Europe,has been in almost constant change since a coach by the name of Jimmy Hogan had his ideas rejected by the then "power men" in the FA, and took his ideas to the fertile oasis that was the various countries in Europe. Believe it or not this was back in 1910,and in 1912,forced to go to Europe for work, Hogan came in touch with another theorist in Austria called Meisl ,and between these two the huge changes that were to take place in European football began,only to be interrupted by 2 world wars. Hogan coached in Austria ,Holland and Hungary ,where he is regarded as the man who created the environment for the great Hungarian teams of the early 1950's. Meisl became for many years the manager of the all conquering Austrian "Wunderteam", the pre-WW11 team that ruled in European football. Moving on, we had Sebes who managed that same Hungarian team that lost it's first game in 5 years in a World Cup Final. Then another thinker by the name of Rappan who,upon recognising his Swiss players could not "match it" with other European teams, decided to change his formation from the widely accepted 2-3-5 to a 1-3-3-3, and it was this success that saw coaches like Pozzo,Rocco and Herrera develop the ultra defensive game of "catenaccio" Rather strangely it was in a different country all together that another change was taking place,in Russia of all places, where "disciples" of Hogan and Meisl began to look at how players could be used in different position . Men like Arkadiev, Lobanovski and Maslov began instructing players to constantly move, creating mayhem among opposing defenders who couldn't work out who they were supposed to "mark" or "pick up" By now coaches were popping up all over the continents both in Europe and South America, spreading the gospels as taught and expanded upon by men like Guttman,Michels,Feola,and Zagallo, many of whom as players had played under these coaches. England and Scotland were not without their thinkers and before Ferguson and Wenger we had men like Busby, Cullis,Nicholson, Stein, Shankly, Paisley and Clough who all managed teams before the two you mentioned,not without a little success,and we should not forget Taylor, who is widely recognsied as the man who introduced the "high press" into football, which in itself is only an advancement in the Russian "organised disorder". Kangas, the game is full of great stories and the efforts of these men should not be dubbed by the phrase, "long ball "football, it is an urban myth. Cheers jb.

Agree with all . No wonder Roy Keane is going insane these days watching the modern generations

Ha, thnks for clearing up, I had to ask!

Agree. It's got to the stage now where kids are following players as much as they are teams. Player A moves, kid changes team. I much preferred the days where my only news was weekly from Shoot or Australian Soccer Weekly. Now we have a 24/7 media that spends much of its time watching social media to see the latest tweet from a player who has nothing to say, bar a subtle dig at his manager, or a video of his latest dance. Agree also on the absurdly over the top player greetings, and that post game few of the losers seem to care, laughing and joking with their victorious opponents, swapping shirts at half time etc. Paul Pogba? What is he? I've always argued overrated, a few fancy touches when winning, invisible and with no appetite for the fight when losing. And yet he's idolized. A player Roy Keane or Viera could (legally) nullify with their first tackle or even a pre game glare. All that's wrong with the modern game. Hugely overpaid, overrated and quick to leak a rumour to force a new deal of transfer

Your correct , it’s definitely a me me me world How’s the epl rating across the Asia pacific, getting bigger and bigger I assume

Good comment j b However, I believe Wenger revolutionised the English game from the old long ball , to in arsenal case a stylistic possession based game and in Ferguson legacy was not just finding c. Ronaldo, but uncovering at least 10 united juniors who became legends at the club and winning many trophies including a ecl with 2 up front and genuine wingers . He was able to deal with egos and make some astute signings , which many United managers could not do before and after ...and I think Ferguson probably won 5 epl titles despite Chelsea or Arsenal having better squads . Unfortunately the last 2 years of Ferguson, despite winning an epl United were in major decline and the decision to give Moyes the job then instead of mourinho or guardiola at the time , has been a big mistake.

While I miss the determination of Roy Keane , he was an incredible player but very grubby , I think the game is better off without grubs . Pogba could be the driving force in central midfield, but he is lazy and the whole team is lazy , they don’t cover the field like the best teams do Mourhinko is part of the problem, but Ed Woodward is the biggest problem. He has overseen a few years of rubbish, because he is not a football man . United need a technical director, who appoints the coach and staff in the style of the club . City were ruthless and quite horrible to Pellegrino , but they gave gardiola Carte Blanche to set up the way he wanted. It’s also interesting that mourinho has signed so many howlers, he used to be incredibly astute at selecting his transfers as was Ferguson, but Jose has got it wrong with lindeloth Bailly Fred Mickitarian Sanchez Pogba etc . I don’t think Ferguson signed 6 bad players in his career.

In what is ostensibly a team game, so often it's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, me.... I have a vague recollection that in the early years of victory, they had a young player called Hatzikostas.

Alexander - You touch on a subject very close to my heart,what it is that is missing in today's game?. Like most other modern day thinkers you cite two managers as being part of the reason and it is here you and I differ for it is my deep belief that it is not managers that cater to the public with their plans and systems (though the media would have you believe differently), it is still players who play the game and therefore in 90 minutes of action come up with a result. I too often think about how the game has changed,(not always for the better), and love to tease fellow debaters with a simple question, that question being as follows ------ "In what is widely recognised as one of the truly great football matches,the 1960 European Cup Final won by Real Madrid over Eintracht Frankfurt by the truly amazing score of 7-3,who coached Real and who coached Eintracht????? It is doubtful if there is a fan around today who,without consulting Wiki or Google could answer that question. Many will tell you Eintracht scored first, will tell you Puskas and Di Stefano put on a master class in how to score goals,but I doubt very much if any one of the 127,000 who attended the match could answer that question and furthermore,couldn't care less. That is how the game today has changed. Cheers jb.