An Indigenous Australian team should be considered for Western Sydney

Well said, and there is currently a debate regarding affirmative action and black economic empowerment, what has happened is that these instruments have been abused, many people assert that we should move away from race and use class as a determining factor.

Interesting comment- with current migration levels the predominant racial/ cultural group of past 200 years - Anglo Saxons - will be a minority in Australia. Already 'dead white male' history is being blanked out - soon the colonial statues will be ripped down too. This actually doesn't bode well for Indigenous Australians who will be more of a minority in the new multi cultural big Australia and likely have less land and less rights too.

Whether such a team has legs or not (and it may not) there is much that could be done to engage with indigenous communities. Here’s a snippet of what the afl are up to: https://www.facebook.com/100000760427028/posts/1959899970711998/

Lets not put the cart before the horse. Rugby has to develop the game and compete with league, Aussie rules, A-league & cricket, on a national stage. With RA devoid of rugby nous and empty coffers we have the shute shield knuckling down without RA proper backing. With no logical pathway to the wallabies IE unless your a schoolboy rep. Then those in the NRC aren't being supported. No wonder most are going with league. It's become a case of wave the qualification papers without the right Rugby experience- nous and the old school rugby brains are being passed over. NZ have retained the amateur part of the game and kept the rugby nous. Our system is what needs attention. Then we can stop going on about our golden once we start and retain the players we need.

Judging by the comments I doubt any first Australians want to be involved in R U if this is the backward discussion their supporters have, FYI eugenics is an out dated racist concept and Aboriginality is a cultural concept not a blood quantum, Willam Buckley was a free convict who became a full fledged initiated member of an Aboriginal group proving those who use eugenics to determine Aboriginality are clueless

exactly I'm not against exhibition games like the NRL example, Indigenous Vs Pacific Islanders would be a great game for Aussie sport. I do have a problem with a side that is meant to represent a region excluding people from that region because of their race. A Western Sydney team should represent Western Sydney in it's entirety just the same as an Australian team should represent all of Australia not just Sydney private schools.

I used a beverage analogy to show how flawed his original analogy was. Surely that was obvious.

No real llogic in this article. When you graduate from age grades, you graduate to "opens" - any team that does not include anyone and everyone is not an "open" team - any team that restricts itself to indigenous people will get flogged, flogged and flogged again, to the point that it will be a failed experiment never to be repeated. Beale, Ellas, Walker and the other indigenous guys who played for the Wallabies over the last 40 or so years make up a small percentage of the total number of Wallabies players - if you want to follow a team that, statistically has no chance of success, then I suggest that you are a brave chap, chasing an ill-conceived and short-lived social experiment. Sorry!

Highly ironic of course that in terms of the South African constitution , the team if selected along race lines may not be allowed to play in the Republic. Work that one out if you can.

Hi Zenn, Cheers for that. The more I look into this I don’t believe the issue centres on ‘race’. Because there is so much mixing of DNA I don’t think the biological criteria are pertinent. It is an issue of identification and culture. But if the decsendents of colonial Scots can do haka alongside their pakeha/maori/pacifica brethren surely we can put a few dots on our national jersey and let a few didges rip gameside out west. Maybe it’s not about Cheika or Castle or Clyne. Maybe indigenous involvement is the missing link! ????

Hi Tony, Thank you for your reply. I believe the discussion is drifting off the rugby pitch here, but here we are. Firstly I take your point about the Fauna and Flora Act. The ‘myth’ of Aboriginal inclusion in the act is an interesting note. And I stand corrected. (Sadly, in reading your link I learnt of the death of Lester Bostock). In any event, my fauna ‘overstatement’ is not central to the point I am attempting to make. Secondly, the veracity of ‘ The referendum passed with over 90% yes vote.’ does not indicate outlier reactions in specific regions. Since you are well read on the matter you may also be able to verify or correct a claim I heard regarding the referendum result in the electorate of Kempsey, which, I am told, returned a result in the extreme negative. At the end of the day, we may agree to disagree about the concept of ‘positive racism’. However my personal belief is that the dominant culture(s) of Australia, having evolved from an early European settlement on land belonging to ‘nullius’ are indebted to those culture(s) and ethnicities who lost ground, figuratively and geographically, via the colonial event. The concept of ‘one law for all’ that you mentioned earlier is fine I suppose if all share the same cosmology, and access to a gaol-free and disease-free life, which of course we do not. But on the issue of aboriginal policy one-size-fits-all legal system seems to me to be simplistic. Regarding your rejection of ‘racial’ criteria in any team selection, do you consider the NZ Maori team to be creating intolerable division or contributing to unwanted racial outcomes in NZ? I am guessing that it does not. But opinions may vary. Some of my NZer sparring partners may care to offer their thoughts on this. I do know that many of them applauded our celebration of indigenous culture through the jersey expression last year. As touchy a subject as this is, and as extreme as opposing views seem to be, I believe it is of profound national importance. Our dominant culture(s) stand on borrowed land. Not bought or fought for. Just appropriated without even a ‘thanks cuz!’ to the nullius’s we borrowed it from. There is no turning back time. But we can turn back unfair differentials compounded over time, even if it’s just to get all sectors of possible talent represented in our national team. I am grateful for your support of most of my thoughts on the WS rugby team, and for your considered point of view on the historical and legal events mentioned in our posts.

I agree with Tony on this and I saw it first hand in South Africa when private school kids from wealthy families that had all the advantages in life were given preferential treatment ("Affirmative Action") e.g. to study medicine when their better performing neighbour were denied access. Even billionaires get preferential treatment in Black Economic Empowerment when they are more than able to compete and have no disadvantage at all. If you want to use a program to uplift the disadvantage you cannot use a blanket race definition to describe disadvantage. Disadvantage is personal and needs to be tested or you will end up with the outcomes we see in South Africa where standards and service delivery dropped. SA doctors for example must now write an exam before they can practice in Australia etc

NZ Maori is representative side, chosen from all of NZ. Imagine having a Maori only NPC team. That would be the equivalent.

You just used a beverage analogy in your argument. congrats

Hi Ken, I wrote my lengthy comment before reading yours. We have similar ideas. Perhaps the Western Sydney Academy team could be named the Warrigals. Similar academies could be progressively established in Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth. Canberra being serviced by the Sydney & Melbourne academies, SA and TAS by Melbourne. Afterall Adam Coleman is a Taswegian.

Your analogy, like most analogies, is flawed for many reasons. The simplest being a similar analogy produces the opposite outcome to yours, if you make cordial with 95% water and 5 % cordial do you call it cordial or water? Reducing the issue of cultural identity to an analogy based on beverage names is offensive.

Hi Tony, thanks for the reference to the non-existent flora and fauna act...it was interesting reading. I am informed that Time-Life had a chapter regarding Aboriginals in a book about Australian Flora and Fauna. I respectfully disagree with you being "opposed to either favouring or penalising anyone based on something they can’t control, be it race, gender or sexual preference." There are many social, economic, cultural and institutional barriers preventing equality of opportunity let alone equality of outcomes. So-called positive discrimination is necessary to overcome these barriers. I say that as a WASP male albeit state-school educated (by choice). I look forward to reading further comments from you.

Perhaps you mean very FEW Indigenous Australians playing the game,

Hi AG, a thought provoking article that is bound to ignite debate. Soccer Australia discontinued ethnicity based ASL teams due to concerns with fan violence but more importantly fans who were not of the team's ethnicity were not attracted to support it. Western Sydney is home to the majority of Aboriginals, as well as migrants of all ethnicities including Polynesians, Melanesians, Sudanese and other Africans, Europeans and all over Asia. Currently rugby is the a long way behind the other major football codes all of whom have a major presence in west Sydney. The NRL has three clubs in WS, the NSL recognised the area's potential when it established the hugely successful Wanderers, as did the AFL by locating the Giants at Rooty Hill. Rugby NSW and Rugby Australia response/indolence has been to allow the Penrith Emus to wither and die. Many players from Penrith's drawing area play at other clubs including Beale. The Emu's had neither the roster nor the finances to attract or keep quality players. The Emus do not have access to wealthy corporate sponsorships like the eastern and northern suburbs clubs, nor to a successful bar. The best way for Rugby NSW and Rugby Australia to exploit the tremendous potential of Western Sydney is to establish a youth academy with paid development officers and coaches. Players recruited to the academy may received subsidised kit. Hills Sports High (at Seven Hills) already have an apparently successful rugby program, however the Youth Academy should complement the school by recruiting players who have missed selection to the school. There is also huge potential among the young players in other codes. The Youth Academy should have aged based squads from e.g. U12s to Colts before eventually re-entering the Sydney grade competitions one year at a time starting from fourth grade. The Academy should reserve a quota of spaces for Aboriginal players. So thanks again for the article AG. Rugby NSW and Rugby Australia left a vacuum in Western Sydney that has been filled immediately by the other football codes. Aboriginal youth need preferential treatment and incentives to help overcome 200 years of marginalisation and discrimination. I believe the way forward is a Western Suburbs Youth Academy not a Koori/Mauri team. A Youth Academy will develop Rugby talent in the west and partially ameliorate the short sighted planning that led to the Emu's demise. Unfortunately it is doubtful a Western Suburbs Youth Academy will eventuate while Rugby focuses on east and north Sydney.

There's no chance of any riots because indigenous rugby players are almost extinct. The Wallabies are being filled with more & more players of Islander heritage, some of whom are pure opportunists. But the indigenous rugby player is invisible. How can this be a good thing?