Why - and where - Valentine Holmes can make it in the NFL

Hayne had at few sessions (not in pads due to his NRL club at the time not allowing it) with the UTS men's team before heading over to the US. One of his mates played for UTS at the time so I can see why he went there, but one wonders if he had spent time with a more successful program like Sydney Uni & perhaps received some better training or advice (UTS has never won a men's championship in all 30+ years of that league). But I agree that a prospective athlete in Australia looking to play American Football as a career should start off developing with a local team first e.g. Adam Gotsis

No he did not prove he could play in the NFL at the standard needed. Reception average was below par (as was his route running) rushing average was below par, and his return play & stats (where he was supposed to be good) were woeful (3 fumbled punts w/1 lost). He also couldn't block for the QB. Every deficiency & weakness was glaringly apparent during the regular season & showed his preseason was a mix of luck & marketing which led to him being included in the final roster. If thats regarded as "making it" then he failed with the opportunity & that was further demonstrated when he ducked out after 1 season. From a coaching perspective there were about half a dozen guys in local gridiron leagues in Oz that were better trained & more suitable to try out for the position but they weren't even a blip on any NFL or NCAA radar. Good on him for trying but it proves developing through the collegiate system after HS is the way to go.

Yeah understand mate but you probably don't need to get personal about it. You are correct that I live in a RL bubble I played at a semi pro level and have coached junior reps. Outside of family it is my number 1 passion. I don't know NFL that well but I am trying to learn, I think it is a fantastic game played by the best athletes in the world however if you are telling me that there is absolutely nothing they could learn from League/ Union then I am sorry but you are wrong. If a coach knows there is a sport where a Luke Keary can bring down a Willie Kikau and doesn't investigate it further I would say he is being negligent. When I was coaching SG Ball I got coaches in from soccer AFL and union to help out with different parts of the game.The two things I think they could learn is tackle technique and gadget plays. I see plenty of missed tackles in the NFL that if I seen a player I was coaching I would say I can fix that. Not saying League players are better defenders but in certain situations there is definitely something to be learnt. The Dolphins beat the Pats in a game last year because they ran and executed something different on the last play. A hall of fame TE Gronkowski was made to look like a clueless school kid when put in a position he wasn't used to. I am just saying that the skills needed to better run those trick plays could be learned from rugby league. At the end of the day the ability to throw a proper lateral that someone can catch could be the difference between winning and losing. I am not talking about whole refits just a tweak here and there. I am sorry to not come up to your standard in NFL knowledge but I am trying.

If you want to hear from NFL gurus then go on YouTube and comment what you said here on the highlights of a NFL game thats already or will be uploaded. It’s not that hard. I could answer the question you’re asking but I don’t think my way of explaining it will do it justice. Do NFL coaches do any research by looking at other sports such as league ? That is by far the most ignorant dumbass thing I’ve ever heard. It’s by far the dumbest comment I’ve read/heard all year so far. You truly live in a bubble of RL don’t you ? Click on this link below or copy and paste in your URL and when you’re there read the comment section where AJ purposely disabled comments so no one could reply back to Barry T. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/29/why-valentine-holmes-will-make-an-nfl-roster/amp/

Thanks for that, whilst I watch a bit of NFL and am pretty into the fantasy league I play in I don't really know the underlying culture of the sport. There are some relevant points there particularly the vision out of the helmet and also the cultural aspect of the basic skills. The Wayne Bennett quote was a good one. The one I use on the boys I coach is "you can be a great athlete but if you can't pass and catch you'll be watching the match". I'm still not convinced that there isn't room for some basic coaching on how to hold the ball so when you do pass it doesn't go like a pumpkin, and also some one on one tackling technique that NFL players could learn but I'm happy to listen to people who know the sport better than me (btw I'm available). I still reckon as I watch a player running down the sideline with a team mate inside I will be yelling at the screen "GIVE IT GIVE IT JUST GIVE IT"!!! Thanks again.

They do research - be sure of that. I think the clemson coach looked very closely at rugby, he couldn't see much in the game he could bring across but he started to see the All Blacks had a cultural basis for continued success and brought that to his college program. On the transposing rugby laterals there’s a few issues, they’re aware of the potential -"hook and ladder/lateral” plays etc. But the risk and the low probability of execution outweigh it. First it’s hard to appreciate how little peripheral vision you have in a helmet unless you’ve run around feeling half blind. You don’t have the same feel for support players like you do in League, rather you just know where everyone should be based on the play, it’s actually how a play can get so badly blown sometimes because it is really easy to lose sight of other players and you just have to trust everyone else is doing their job. That’s why the typical lateral play has the lateral passer (or receiver of the forward pass) hooking or curling back so that his receiving team mates are all in his field of vision (but it does mean he gets smashed in the back) Second ball security and field position are really highly valued due to probability of scoring. So generally you’ll only see this type of pass on an option play and behind the line before the defence can disrupt because unlike league or union (or a forward pass) you can clean out the target of a lateral without the ball (but can’t “tackle” him). This is why these plays are typically only used as a “trick” because if the defence knows what’s coming they can disrupt “receivers” after the forward pass and you've got a 50/50 shot at a turnover. Third, skillset. Drawing the man and passing the ball is a fundamental skill in league. I think Bennet back when he was in Brisbane told junior coaches at clinics (paraphrasing) “teach them to draw and pass, tackle properly and catch and pass and we’ll do the rest if they’re good enough”. Something which is so natural to us because we all learnt to do it from a young age is completely foreign to NFL players, just look at how they lateral the ball by flipping it end on end. Fourth coaching, yes you could overcome some of this by dedicating lots of coaching time to it (the trite 10,000 hours). But is that an efficient use of time versus dedicating time to coaching the core part of game, remembering that everything that happens out there is based on repetition of patterns. Coaching staff already work ridiculous hours with film sessions, game planning and then on field practices. Lastly. If someone was planning to do it, they should definitely not do it at the back end of blow out games. That’s when you go vanilla because as soon as you show your trick play people will either copy it or devise ways to diagnose or stop it.

Do NFL coaches ever do any research by looking at other sports such as rugby league? I watch when teams need a desperation play on the last play of the game and they are absolutely clueless with structuring an attack outside of the normal structures in which they operate. They normally throw a heap of bad laterals and end up losing yards. The exception was the play the Jets ran against Pats to win the game last season, I watch and I can see so many opportunities to run lead and sweep plays or second man plays with a bit of structure that would split defences open or even simple draw pass when you get into the back field. I don't understand why teams don't work more on those plays. You could run them in games where the result is beyond doubt so you know them when you need them. Interested to hear from NFL gurus.

Not sure what Hayne would have studied!

SBW I could see as a LB definitely or maybe a D end

What about Sonny Bill? I believe him to be the most athletic big man we ever had in Rugby League. I could definitely have seen him at OLB.

Yep I get that, I'm just saying there is stuff they could do before even getting on the plane if they're serious. I didn't know Hayne had done so, good on him

They did go over and spend time with transition coaches in the US. Those guys are college level coaches. Here it’s a hobby, over there it’s a 7 figure job on the coaching side. We’ve got a lot of talented guys but it’s not their profession

Perhaps I'm being unfair, but I would have thought if you wanted to go play an entirely new sport you'd at least talk to people nearby who know it. Their clubs might not want them playing but there's plenty you can do without padding up to prepare. Surely there would be coaches in their nearby area who'd be thrilled to help them with route running for example.

I think that’s harsh. Hayne reportedly did go to some sessions but in all likelihood their clubs are unlikely to really give them the freedom. This isn’t the hunt folau cash grab in AFL these guys will be on way less playing NFL. Coaches here are pretty good considering but unless stuff has fundamentally changed since I was “involved” we’re more at the high school level- as the end of season tours highlight.

Agreed that Mailata looks like a good prospect - but he's unlikely to play for at least another year - they don't want to expose him too early, and have Big V for the swing tackle spot on contract (last year of his rookie deal) for 2019. Very much a project still.

There are some very good home grown American Football coaches. The fact that none of these guys have bothered to head down to say Sydney Uni or somewhere, or even played an amateur season in Australia shows it's not really about the game.

Yeah I had misread his size, I don't watch league so had assumed he was a bigger dude

If you were talking about a bigger guy with ridiculous raw athleticism, sure (Taupau as a power end, anyone? Taumalolo?) - throw him in as a pure pass rusher on 3rd downs. Holmes is way too small for that, and DB seems... unlikely. Safety is just a no-no, and CB... does he have the hips to play man? Because I'm not sure I'd trust him in zone based coverage shells. Since it's the Jets, RB is out. WR is in play, because... well... look at their WR stocks. Shame that they've got 3 decent slot guys, though. KR/PR is the obvious spot to aim for while trying to develop as an outside receiver or gadget player.

Not sure about the scholarship, holmes is mid 20s hayne was late 20s. Not sure they would have been able to qualify either given endorsement deals. Both are taking/took huge pay cuts. Playing for free for 2-4 years and not being able to even monetize endorsements would be madness

As a New York Jets fanatic living in Australia I have to say it will be very surprising he gets on the field. He will play in the pre-season on Special Teams and may get 1-2 carries as a Running Back but it is a super long shot that he makes the final 53 man roster. His body shape is nowhere near as good as Jarryd Hayne's. I do not understand why both Hayne and Holmes did not try for a College Scholarship and learn that game at that level although that would mean this is about NFL and not about money. PS- If you want to look at a real NRL player making it in the NFL check out Jordan Mailata at the Philadelphia eagles yet unless you are a fanatic NFL type like me you hear nothing of him. Former Souths Sydney Rabbittoh.