The Penrith Panthers are now three wins from 11 matches after a 16-10 victory over the Parramatta Eels on Thursday night.
The match definitely won’t be shortlisted as one of the classics, but Ivan Cleary would have felt some relief after his side got the two points thanks largely to his son Nathan’s performance in the second half.
However, there remain massive questions as to what has changed for a team that finished fifth in 2018 to look like a reserve-grade side for much of this season.
Reports today that Cleary has admitted that the sex-tape scandals during the off-season had more of an effect on the team than he even realised offers a reason for the form slump.
(Renee McKay/Getty Images)
But is it a legitimate excuse or a convenient reason to hide behind?
Cleary also said, “The dynamic of our team has changed since last year. Our leadership has got a fair bit to go. Our guys are doing the best job they can do”.
He’s seemingly laying the blame of the team’s slide in the Panthers leadership group.
Furthermore, Cleary said, “When you lose a captain like Peter Wallace … that had a big say in the dynamic of the team. Our teamwork has suffered”.
I cannot help but wonder: doesn’t Cleary, the head coach, have some input into teamwork, leadership and keeping the ship steady?
The Panthers of 2019 and the comments Cleary has made would not be giving their supporters much hope. Fans should be justifiably concerned about Cleary’s inability to read the dressing room.
So is Ivan Cleary even a good coach?
I am not the first to ask and answer this question. Gorden Tallis made clear his unequivocal opinion on the subject in 2018 on radio station Triple M.
“Everybody’s carrying on about Ivan Cleary but I’m calling bulls*** on his record. It (his win-loss record) was 50 per cent at the Warriors, it was 47 per cent at the Panthers and it’s 41 per cent (at Wests Tigers).”
The science behind successful coaching, as history shows, can be heavily influenced by variables inside and outside the club bubble. Family, friends, agents, injuries and media can have an impact on individual players and by extension the team.
(Mark Evans/Getty Images)
In many cases the coach can negate those outside influences, depending on the coach abilities. It would be hard not to think Trent Robinson has played a major role in maintaining Latrell Mitchell’s form through his player-agent relationship breakdown.
On the other hand, Wayne Bennett’s tenure at the Newcastle Knights, which included the life-changing injury to Alex McKinnon, was not successful. Here I would argue that no coach could have done any better. Wins and losses were hardly a priority for a group of players or the coach considering what was happening to one of their teammates.
What is Cleary’s excuse?
Sex tapes and the ensuing fallouts. Are these within a coach’s realm of incidents that they should be able to contain? I’m not really sure. Players lives have been affected, yes, but not to the point that one of them might find themselves confined to a wheelchair for life.
Maybe Tallis was right all along and the best explanation is the simplest. Looking at his coaching record, it hardly inspires confidence. It makes you wonder what the Panthers were thinking in offering a five-year contract.
Five-year contracts for coaches belong to the Craig Bellamys, Wayne Bennetts and possibly Trent Robinsons.
You could analyse ad nauseum Cleary’s coaching record, dissecting his squads, boardroom support, outside influences, injuries et cetera, and you could debate whether his record was adversely affected beyond his control. But for a coach with over a decade’s experience, the law of averages would suggest his would be a hard case to argue.
He’s spent 12 years as a head coach and has a victory percentage in the 40s. In comparison, Des Hasler’s tumultuous tenure at the Bulldogs produced 94 wins from 166 games for a 57 per cent win rate. It’s surprising looking back at how rocky that situation always seemed to be.
Coaches live and die by premierships or the lack of them. Even good coaches may not win premierships, but they win more than they do not. I am with Tallis on this – his win-loss record doesn’t warrant the “carry on”, let alone a five-year contract, and regardless of any negative outside pressure, that record demonstrates an inability to be a successful coach at NRL level.
Forty Twenty
Roar Rookie
''that record demonstrates an inability to be a successful coach at NRL level'' .... ''Ivan The Wonderful'' disagrees.
woppadingo
Guest
At the time, getting a 50% win rate out of the Warriors was considered a great feat of coaching.
Isaac Buatava
Roar Pro
Hi Doug, tallis was first to call it out last year. As you said 47% winning percentage and 1 gf appearance in 12 years of coaching is mediocre at best.
Doug Graves
Guest
"He’s a good coach there’s no question about that in my opinion." What are you basing your opinion on? The bloke has a 47% win percentage in over 10 years of coaching! As far as I'm concerned, achieving 1 grand final appearance in that time is average at best. "Also the Panthers aren’t that good of a side. I put them on par with the Tigers and Eels who will slide down the ladder for the rest of the season." Fair enough but the Panthers are running second last. There isn't much room for them to slide down to. Personally I hope Penrith keep him and continue to be mediocre for the next 5 years.
Doug Graves
Guest
Excellent article. It's good to finally see someone calling Cleary out for his mediocre record. As others have stated the bloke is a grub and I'm just hoping Penrith stick with his mediocrity for the next 5 years, they deserve it.
Isaac Buatava
Roar Pro
Hi Snoop, not convinced he is a good coach but totally agree your comments about the father son dynamic.
Snoop Bloggy blog
Roar Rookie
He’s a good coach there’s no question about that in my opinion. But surely coaching your son is a conflict of interest. It was weird enough once you got into high school. People are people and as hard as they try players will sometimes question how their dynamic affects the team. Also the Panthers aren’t that good of a side. I put them on par with the Tigers and Eels who will slide down the ladder for the rest of the season.
Jacko
Guest
Yeah maybe so. I wont miss him.
Isaac Buatava
Roar Pro
Maybe English super league Jacko, would any other club in the NRL have him?
Jacko
Guest
Whats who I support got to do with anything. A man is judged on his words and actions and Grub Cleary tried to blackmail the Warriors into extending his contract 18mths out from the contracts end date by saying Penrith are offering me more. Who cares what Penrith are offering if you have a contract in place already? Then Penrith found out he was useless so sacked him. The Tigers signed him to a contract only for him to create a 5-6 mth saga about going back to penrith. All his promises about how he was staying at the Tigers saying he was there to stay and saying he was not leaving to coach the Panthers then off he goes and re-negs on another contract. Now penrith are playing far worse than they were last season. I hope he gets the sack AGAIN from penrith as his word is about as good as a paper hanky in a Qld storm. There is NO HONOUR in anything he has done and he is probably getting his manager to shop him around as I write.
Gray-Hand
Roar Rookie
Wallace only played 5 games last season, so they are better off without him taking up salary cap space.
Insider
Roar Rookie
Brian that’s not on mate seriously, Kosta I hate Souths hate hate hate, but wouldn’t that said if you win the comp I’m happy for you
Isaac Buatava
Roar Pro
Hard to argue with that. The boardroom have a lot to answer for.
Isaac Buatava
Roar Pro
I would be interested too. Though i think with league as opposed to say football where how they win (eg the barca way) can be just as important,with league its purely on the wins and loses.
Richard POWELL
Roar Rookie
"is it a legitimate excuse or a convenient reason to hide behind?" The latter I think.In fact I'm sure. They did nothing to convince me last night that they're anything but cellar dwellers. Drop the ball on the first tackle, give away stupid penalties, missed tackles. They were only kept in the game because Parra was more inept then them. They might roll a depleted Manly next week but they won't have any joy with other teams above them. It's a true cliche, that what goes around, comes around. The management were despicable last year with the Griffen/Cleary fiasco and now they're getting their payback. Karma! Karma! If they'd publicly sacked Gould instead of letting him walk and then apologized to Griffen and the fans they might have got some redemption.
Joshua
Guest
Im a tigers fan so obviously not Ivans biggest but Penrith roster last year was better then this years - they lost Wallace, Merrin, Peachey, CHN 3 of who are origin players and CHN has shown at the dogs what he brings. Wallace esp though because Katoa is horrible and thier attack suffers because of it and because the 4 above were all players who d rfove the attack with Peach and CHN breaking things open while Merrin created so much 2nd phase play. Now Ivan's has been a horrible attack coach as well being bottom 2 for attack his last 4 seasons so that backs it up.
Burwale
Guest
What would be helpful would be to provide better differentiation than good/bad/mediocre. I mean we should be able to split up the key aspects and then assess performance. Eg cleary is good at building defensive structure but his attack plans are limited and he is limited in the way he develops young players. I’d be interested in what clubs are looking for when they select a new coach- then we could see whether they deliver in some areas even if the results aren’t great.
Matty E
Roar Rookie
I think we all rated Cleary until he left the Tigers, but probably more for his 'underdog' status. It would be interesting to see how he goes with a glamour club (who wouldnt risk him), or atleast a roster of his choosing. You never know, Penrith could have trophy in the next five years.
Forty Twenty
Roar Rookie
Last season the players voted for Cleary as the second best coach in the game and Robinson was way back in the pack so ratings swing around based on what is happening at a given point in time. A month ago Brown was the worst coach in the game but the calls for his sacking have gone a bit quiet. Quoting Cleary's winning % at the Tigers or Browns at Newcastle is of zero relevance if it's a genuine appraisal.
Brian George
Guest
He tries hard to pretend he's not really Papi Smear.