Marnus Labuschagne could be the player Australia have waited for

Unfortunately carey didn't really get to bat in the match jeff but seemed to keep just fine with the victory. I think they Aussies have missed a beat not giving him a go in the series and particularly at manchester they could get him in to get more balance in the side where they could have got starc bowling with more functional batting and 5 to 6 bowlers. Will be interesting to see how they can incorporate starc at manchester as they will need three pace bowlers along side him. There is a way to do it but can't see them dropping paine unfortunately

Oh, Donald, you are tremendous!

Carey has been brought into the Derbyshire tour match to keep.

No. It is you who can’t read. Alex Carey’s batting average in Sheffield shield matches since the start of 2017-18 season is 40. Are you disputing that?

If there is swing around then Khawaja is a walking wicket. Experience counts for nothing if you're making the same mistake all the time. I don't see Australian selectors opening with Khawaja. It's not something they would do this time in a series. After all they picked three openers in the squad. If they think Khawaja will come good they'll back him at 3. So I believe it's Khawaja or Wade out for Labushagne. If they drop Wade then Labushagne has to bat five. Regardless of who they drop one thing is certain the person who they will drop haven't done enough and the others who survived the axe are lucky and need to step up. I can't help but feel Labu at 3 gives us a better chance of posting a big score.

well I must say at least you put forward your case with some evidence and opinions rationally there. Im just not sure public confidence in Cricket Australia matters what matters is winning the ashes and I think the public will happily support smith again despite CAs sanctions which are dramatic and excessive. I think for two test matches a few of these guys could be captain. Im pretty sure Smith will return to the helm if he retains his form. Quite frankly ECB , SAB overturn their rules and do as they please or cower quietly as much as they please so why can’t CA. Im not sure the public even considers stokes demo job brawling outside of a pub even though he wasn’t convicted by law, the bashing was brutal. Do the english care No. Did he drag his english team in to disrepute arguably yes . What the english public care about its winning the ashes . Of course these are just practical examples on why could reinstate smith given the gravitas of his so called crime to the australian public was providing a sketchy press conference to cover his players up without any help from Cricket Australia after what warner planned and executed (without smiths knowledge) If we stay on that point it comes back to whether Paine is really going to do that much more keeping in these two tests than Wade or carey (unlikely to come in to squad) . So its Paine v Wade as keeper. Im just not sure Wade will make that many bloopers as keeper. Funnily enough though Im not a fan of his batting unless he’s on a really flat wicket. Thing is he may get that at manchester if you look at the history and at the oval. So dropping paine would allow starc and siddle both to play in a four man pace attack with a spinner and a fairly good leggie. If you look at manchester its a winning formula as teams often are bowling heavy at manchester due to first innings totals . Smith will probably come in for harris but hard to tell what these selectors will do. Im looking at manchester now Josh and trying to get our best squad. Thanks for your thoughts and laying them out well though

The thing I can't fathom is why you're considering Paine's merit as a batsman. I cannot emphasise this enough: Paine is not in the team as a batsman. If he can score a few runs here and there, that would be excellent and we'd much prefer if he did, but he's a wicketkeeper. His primary job is to keep. Full stop. You can't pick a keeper based on his batting ability. Lyon has never held a leadership position in his career and his incident with ABdV last year makes him partially complicit in CA's toxic culture. Hazlewood is too injury prone and too heavily rested to be a consistent skipper. Cummins is approaching the peak of his career and the part where he is expected to experience the most strain on his body. He can't bowl 140km/h+ 20 overs a day, be expected to make ~20 runs at no.8 every innings and captain a cricket team. That workload is way too hard. Too much pressure. And you do realise Smith is suspended for another year from a captaincy position right? Haha, classic. Getting a guy who has been banned from captaincy to captain again. That'll really reinstill public confidence in Cricket Australia.

I think the only words I agree with are probably Paine will stay but only due to politics . Im going off the last three test matches. Wade and carey can't do any worse than Paine and will only make more runs. Smith, cummins, hazel wood , lyon can all captain. We can't ask lyon can we as we are both on a forum. We need to look at the balance of the squad and an extra bowler at manchester so possibly two bowling changes with smith coming back. On form Paine and one of the batsman would normally be first to go. Paine should not get any special exceptions. He's made no runs. Healy has said it all recently so instead of making generalizations go by his comments in print . Warne has also said his field placements have been poor. His batting is really bad in three matches and his decision making with DRS clear for all to see . His keeping adequate with a few errors nothing wade or carey couldn't do. Next you'll tell me you know more than healy and warne about cricket.

I rebutt that with two crucial points: 1. Who will be captain? 2. Who will be keeper? Paine's the best keeper in the country, let alone the squad. Wade can't keep. Just ask Lyon. Carey's a lesser keeper, and so won't be brought into the squad. Carey's form has been in shortform cricket as well. No guarantee that'll translate to Tests anyway. There are no other viable captaincy options. Nothing will change. Paine will stay.

Im going on the summer in england . Paines been diabolical. Careys outstanding. Its england stats and recent ones that count. Keep quoting australian stats all you like. if the last test match doesn’t convince you I don’t know what will as long as your happy with your stats though from the past on irrelevant pitches with totally different conditions. Im actually not having a go at you. I want australia to win the ashes they need to man up quick this series and make intelligent changes on the facts of the last three test matches which are highly relevant and the summer of cricket we’ve witnessed in england. Paine has done nothing at all to warrant it and is getting worse josh . I was a fan of his in the past and maybe back in australia but not here in england as it stands. He’s just dropped a test match with lunacy. healys comments have backed me up. we have two test matches left. I don’t want to be quoting stats afterwards without the ashes. do you? Im not alone on this josh theres a tidal wave of support around for changes. even wade could balance the side as keeper at manchester , allowing starc to come in as well as siddle and smith if we drop paine it frees up valuable room. If you go back with stats on manchester you’ll begin to understand whats necessary at manchester and how we can achieve it. those are key stats to look at . I might right an article on it to get away from sounding like I don’t respect paines past as opposed to whats right to win the ashes now

If you've read my above conversation with Peter, you'll realise I well and truly have the ascendency with respect to statistics. He's clutching at straws and twisting data to suit his view. I've actually used Carey's averages and made meaningful deliberations about them. It's not my data that isn't holding up, it's his. If you can't see that, I honestly don't know what to say.

Peter, you completely ignored my comment. 2 games is not even close to a sufficient sample size for a season; you can try all the mental gymnastics you like around averaging and adding, but you can't escape the fact that it is a statistically terrible decision to use data that is supported by 4 samples. I'm not a lawyer, but that's pretty damning.

Going forward after the ashes series it is time for Australia to plan their batting line up around Steve Smith for the next few years. Warner Usi and wade will not be there for the long term. This may be a harsh call, but why not try to get Harris and Bancroft as an opening combination a go. They are both around 26-27 years of age and could be a stable combination for a few years. The lower and middle should be based around Marnus , Travis Head and Kurtis Patterson going forward. If if his mental health issues are all okay this summer at home is the perfect time for Will Pucowski to make his test debut, especially with Smith at his peak. This guy already averages 50 in first class cricket and has shown that he can make big scores. Age and experience should be no barrier.

I guess they wanted a keeper who could rebuild and counter attack when the top 6 failed. Something Marsh, Healy, Gilly and Haddin were able to do (not sure about Matty Two-Tons, I wasn’t watching.) Interesting that the mantra has shifted. It didnt when they thought Paine could bat. But it has now, that he can’t. I like a keeper batsman, great teams have them. But I understand that there are other purities.

Another mistreated cricketer by the selectors. Doesnt talk enough, pretty pathetic. He's a good keeper who was dropped because of a fragile top 6.

i really shouldn't... but rather than being "completely wrong", anyone who made the statement "Carey has averaged 40 in* the last two Shields"would be COMPLETELY RIGHT! He scored 455 with 13 outs in 17-18. He scored 150 runs with 2 outs in 18-19 If I add the runs, I get 605 If I add the outs, I get 15 If I do the numerator denominator thingy I will get 40.33. Mmmm. If I add the tons that Carey scored across those Shields, i would get 1 + 1 = 2. If I check all the first class games Time Paine has played, 122 of them with 206 innings, I will find one. making anyone who made that statement ("Carey scored more tons in that time than Paine has in his whole FC career COMPLETELY CORRECT). So, factcheck does not support you. You can nuance, discuss, sample size, variation around the mean, but you don't get to say people are wrong when they are right. (Not that I said those things about Paine. but anyone who did would be right). ((*If I was your lawyer I would be telling you to say "oh, I thought you meant he had averaged over 40 in EACH of those seasons. " You might win that one. )) (((More importantly, it just shows the only way to support Paine is to focus on his alleged keeper gap and liberate him from the skippering and the batting, he can come in after Cummins and support whoever is tonking.)))

where does the maligned Nevill sit in it? as for me, I would go for Tom Triffitt. what a great name.

improving every year! (PS i can't be wrong asking a question.) glug glug glug. that's all i hear as we tie ourselves to Tim the Terriffic. can i just ask you, what do you base your keeping analysis on? when have you seen Carey keep in a FC game? Have you actually watched Fumbly Tim this series? how wide is this street that divides them, is it aback lane in Newtown or a Buenos Aires avenue? it's closing, though, isn't it? That so-called gap? Carey is twice the batsman Paine is at the moment. Almost as good a keeper. Paine has shown the limitations of his leadership. we can change now or when it's too late. Australia in england take great comfort from the too late approach. Oh well.

Gday Peter. No ,I want a specialist keeper . Who's the best keeper is a question for someone who watches alot of shield cricket. I used to but not so much over the last couple of years. If Chris Hartley was still playing id have him in a heart beat. Whiteman was apparently a pretty good keeper but has had injuries. Pierson not a bad keeper .Carey's keeping through the WC wasn't very good. Paine wasn't even keeper in Tassie when he was picked for the test team . I would probably go for Whiteman than Pierson.

Depends on the pitch at manchester but Im not far behind you Paul. Im just doing some research on manchester. Its generally been a result pitch (13 in last 15 matches) but some big runs racked up in first innings at times often by just the side batting first. So your line up sounds right on that basis but winning the toss would help big time to bat first it seems (unless the overhead conditions are dire or pitch is a green deck) . In the world cup there recently the guy to make all our runs was carey (85) but they just won't play him. If we need starc in there we have to consider an extra bowler which means we have to let go of a batsmen as they won't let go of Paine for PC reasons which is now hurting us for me