As the latest developments in Australian rugby become more and more farcical (although at least we have an interim CEO now, we decided we need something lighthearted to take our minds off the shambles. Something where looking back and reminiscing about the good old days is actually relevant.
A few weeks ago we asked you to pick the team the Wallabies should field when they play their next Test (whenever that is), now we’re going to flip that idea on its head and pick a Wallabies dream team of players who wore the green and gold during the Super Rugby era.
We’ll do the voting in batches, one group of positions at a time, starting with the front-rowers today and working our way through the entire XV and then the bench.
As with all the positions, we’ve provided a range of options for you to pick from, from the heyday of the late 90s and early 2000s right up to modern times. That said, if we’ve left out someone you’d like to see make the team, you can always throw in your own ‘captain’s call’.
Keep in mind that we’re only considering performances during the Super rugby era, so for those who played for the Wallabies right through the 1990s, try to ignore their form from pre-1996.
Other than that, get stuck into picking the men at the front of the scrum, tell us who your selections are in the comments, and we’ll be back tomorrow to pick the locks.
G Len N
Roar Rookie
Axel Foley was a very good scrummager and became an excellent coach.
Olly
Roar Rookie
To become a millionaire right a book about how to become a millionaire. If you don't get that, then not worth arguing about it.
jeznez
Roar Guru
I brought the book up because the author is from Argentina and you are claiming them being world famous for this. Am I correct that now you have moved your argument to you faced their U-20s who did this and that's why Pato would be fine under modern laws. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Olly
Roar Rookie
You don't learn expert skills in a book. I played against the Argentine U20s team...they held a long scrum. The basturds would not hook at the ball but just apply pressure, after about 8 to 10 seconds of the ball just sitting there, they had us. Count out 10 seconds in your head, no blood running to your brain, then they start to apply pressure..horrible. Our coach noted that each scrum went for 16 seconds. Our front row was cooked.
AJ
Guest
Great call Don Someone correct me if I’m wrong but he improved the scrum significantly when took over from Kearns in 1999 RWC.
jeznez
Roar Guru
My copy of the Art of Scrummaging is in storage at the moment but I don't recall a section on holding long, or that being a particularly Argentine technique. There are sections detailing the co-ordinated shove, the bajada, problem solving, referee management, history, psychology and more. Topo talks about how he himself used to like to scrum long, believing no one could beat him the longer the scrum went on but I got the impression that was a personal rather than a national trait. My very first scrum coach when I played in the 12B's used to have us hold for long periods, never was it described as a Argentine technique. That scrum coach was the school's 1st XV coach helping out our bottom grade, a phenomenal coach that went on to coach Gordon's forwards in the Shute Shield. My best coach after school was when I was in colts, he used to have us hold long in training and again never mentioned it was an Argentine technique. He went on to coach Manly in Shute, NSW U-19's and Kobe Steel in Japan. These were in 1985 and 1992 - were these guys ahead of the curve, plagiarising without giving credit? Seems odd that Rodriguez didn't devote a chapter to this technique they are supposedly so famous for.
peterj
Roar Rookie
Wasn’t he the starting hooker in the 99 final too? JP came off the bench and Kearns got injured earlier in the tournament.
Olly
Roar Rookie
They have been famous for this training session where they have to hold the pressure on for an unusually long time. It came into the northern hemisphere when they started taking all the players and scrum coaches from Argentina for there club rugby. We have started doing it under Cheika but we are playing catchup. The new boys seem to be getting it. Think how many times you have watched the Wallabies get done over by the 2nd shove.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Got it. Just they haven’t got anyone as good as Pato or Topo anymore. Is scrumming for a long time really an Argentine specific method? Seen plenty of scrums that like to hold the ball in.
Olly
Roar Rookie
Except all top tier scrums have adopted their long scrum theory and training style due to the new scrum laws...
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
Yeah I’m pretty sure it was because of Ma’afu. Palmer possibly also. I always felt Benny was better utelised at LH though, simply because he had such a good loose game, and Scrummaging at TH wears players down so much that it limited his ability to play to his potential.
jeznez
Roar Guru
I got quite cranky at the Brumbies switching BA back, he'd just started to get a handle on TH and reverting to LH for the season really set him back. Think they might have had Ma'afu, who could scrummage, so I understood why - just frustrating.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Then success has nothing to do with the "Argentine scrum school" either. So your argument is - I think he'd have been fine under the new laws because I think he's good. Completely ignoring that quality scrummagers like Robinson (I know you don't rate him) and Jones couldn't convert. It's ok to say that, my choice at LH is Harry and I'm picking him on suspicion as well, that he'd have been fine under the new laws. I'm actually swayed a bit towards your choice of Slipper based on how well he is going these days, and that he started under the old laws. Just don't claim Noriega would have been fine due to the Argentine scrum school, while ignoring that said school isn't currently producing top quality scrummagers.
Olly
Roar Rookie
It seems to be a thing in Australia rugby. We like to throw players into the deep end at test level and wonder why they struggle.
Olly
Roar Rookie
Haha I have seen him go backwards as he is a Wallaby prop :laughing:
Olly
Roar Rookie
Yes, the talent or lack off it of there current players has nothing to do with him
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
Remember when Alexander was playing LH and Kepu TH for their franchises and then they got picked on the opposite side for the Wallabies during the Deans era? So silly.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Maybe the fact that in the Sydney test Kepu was at TH instead of Alexander might have had something to do with the turn around in performance? You must have missed a few tests if you've never seen Slipper go backwards :silly:
jeznez
Roar Guru
Your argument was literally that he’d be fine “as he came through the Argentine scrum school”
Olly
Roar Rookie
2012 We played Walse in the northern hemisphere and our Scrum got destroyed with our front row being sent to the bin. It was an embarrassing game that we still somehow won thanks to our backs. I have never watched a game with slippery and felt ashamed of the Wallabies Scrum like watching that game. You can't make a top list with a performance like that.