An NRL stadium plan that benefits everyone

I can assure you, it will be used by the Roosters, Souths, NRL semi finals,ANZ day NRL match, Waratahs, Sydney FC,Women's Soccer world cup, Rugby Union World Cup matches,concerts. And very likely more families and women in attendance. Which makes your coments about not a great investment look rather silly. If it was only for the Roosters usage, there is zero chance the State Govt would have spent those monies.Even though they and cricket did so with the SCG. And how many times are AFL matches booked out in Melbourne /Sydney/or Brisbane/GC ? The only way Govt will spend money is that the stadiums are multi usage.Whether it's half full,3.4 full or full, the rental doesn't alter.

Well let’s see how the new oversized SFS goes... a shiny new stadium that likely will be mostly be half empty for games played there.. you don’t need to be an expert to see that this is not a great investment by NSW govt.

I know what that facility was and is GoGWS.I also know money was allocated for its refurbishment, as well as monies paid by the Blacktown council for your club. I keep going on about the Giants, because a GoGWS fan made the comments about what the NRL deserves.Yet ignores what his mob has received ,throw in money from the ACT Govt. It is used in winter for one football code.Let’s not get carried away.about the show ,when you organise different scheduling. The Sharks have spent a lot of money into their own ground too, so why should they have little cover and not full seating.Their fans are taxpayers . Show me the Govt funds that has been spent on Leichhardt Oval, that’s what. And what about the suburban grounds facilities falling into disrepair or with poor facilities. The money spent in Blacktown was not modest, it was ratepayer’s money.Talk about an entitlement mentality, when they left them in the lurch. You see again you express your ignorance ,the money spent on rectangular grounds is for 3 football codes’ benefits not just one.The new stadiums are not just for the ,stop pretending they are just for the NRL’s benefit With due respect you would be the last person ,to tell anyone to get over it. It’s got nothing to do with rl journalists, it’s to do with improving facilities for my code and other rectangular codes. Your last line shows exactly what you dare accuse others of doing, reading journos by using the oft used FitzSimons description of “pure greed”. Pure greed mate, is spending near $1bn on Optus, a huge amount on Adelaide Oval, with both states hardly flush with cash.You stated crowds were huge before they were built, then on your regular NRL bashing theories, there was no need for you beaut new stadiums, if they could manage the crowds beforehand.That’s just “pure greed”. You’re just exhibiting the usual AFL indoctrination BS syndrome.We are the ones, the rest should bow at our feet, don’t criticise we are above reproach as(Grant Thomas alluded) ,because we have big crowds no other code should be entitled to improve their facilities .Your argument is thinner than paper mache. My family example attending the SFS confirmed the need for better facilities for familes.

You keep going on about the GIants… mate you do realise that the facility they play from at Homebush is a repurposed Olympic baseball facility? And that annually they have to vacant it for a month or so for the Sydney Show..And in summer it is used for cricket and has hosted various other events. Also, the AFL has put its own money into that facility as well. So yes, the Giants have benefited from some public funds at that facility, as have other sports, but so what. This was all about the NSW investing in what otherwise would have been a white elephant – a 20K seat baseball facility that would have fallen into disrepair like so many Olympic facilities overseas. And the money put into Blacktown facility is extremely modest, especially compared to what has been thrown at the NRL already – get over it. Get over it and stop swallowing nonsense fed to you by certain RL journalists. The current campaign by the NRL for upgrades to four suburban grounds on top of the two new stadiums they already will receive is pure greed…

Their numbers are better than they were, because they have better facilities. I am well aware of the old VFL park,Geelong ,Adelaide crowds.The code has dominated in the Southern states by a country mile, still does.A compliant media, no real opposition, and only in the last 20 years.Are you suggesting crowds are not bigger in stadiums like Optus? I don't need to "convince myself",a silly comment ,I look at Eels crowds,I look at Knights and Storm crowds. and Broncos crowds, since they had new and upgraded stadiums.I look at suburban grounds on wet days ,with small cover.Don't need to be a brain surgeon to know the benefits of decent facilities.You through your AFL tinted glasses won't acknowledge the fact. Putting words into my mouth is not an argument but a deflection . Nowhere have I stated, or even thought there has been some decent increase overall, only where new stadiums have popped up. RL journalists in fact are in favour of better facilities for fans .They have stated ANZ for a start is terrible for watching rugby league compared to the new Parramatta stadium. But your club has been here just a few years (the NRL clubs at least 50 years)and has facilities far better than a lot of NRL Sydney grounds, and you are lecturing NRL, Super Rugby and A league fans what they should have.Yeah right.Straight out of AFL Central. The Raiders and Brumbies have been trying to upgrade Bruce for a long time , yet you guys are able to get Barr's mob to ferret out $2m pa for 10 years, by playing a couple of games.And ground improvements in Canberra. I took my daughter to the SFS in 2016 for a semi final,the women's toilet facilities were terrible.She didn't want to go back.And you're rambling on about decent facilities don't make a difference and boost crowds.

Mate - they’ve show up in massive numbers for Aussie rules for many decades.. before mass media, and before all seater stadiums. The larger stadiums the AFL now has did not drive its larger crowds... they always have had large crowds. As for NRL crowds suddenly increasing due to newer stadiums.. well as long as you’re convinced by your own arguments that’s the main thing... I do recall reading RL journalists who concede there has been no material increase in RL crowds for decades But if you think there has been then good for you.

Of course they(AFL) show up, they've had SFA opposition and an obedient obsessed media for yonks.They have all seater stadiums .And their crowds improved with the new stadiums.Their game is also better suited live. Their TV ratings in the North remain ordinary. Grant Thomas (from memory) stated that on radio, he was told not to criticise the AFL else Demetriou would ensure they lose their rights. The proof (when one mentions all seater stadiums)shows, when the Storm played at the old Olympic Park their crowds were far less ,than now.Ditto Parramatta with their new stadium. Ditto Newcastle with their upgraded stadium.So they were demand driven, as was the Cowboys stadium and Suncorp. Demand driven also includes having 3 football codes that use it ,not just one.You leave yourself open there GOGWS. Marvel is getting $225m spent on it and the surrounds.Maybe Chairman Andrews is getting finance from Beijing. See your ignorance shows, if ANZ had been reconfigured to a 70K stadium. It would have been packed out for NRL Grand Finals,SOO,Rugby Union tests against the All Blacks and British Lions,Soccer Internationals male and female,World Cup for soccer and Union.It certainly would have got far bigger crowds for semis /finals and even NRL club games. How many times a year does the AFL get 90K at the SCG .Look at the basic crowds at GWS . Yes I'm thinking Optus, Adelaide Oval, and I'm thinking money outlaid ,which will be far, far more than what would be outlaid in Sydney. So supporters for 3 rectangular codes in this country( where the majority of the population lives), taxpayers like others, should put up with inferior facilities, because an AFL fan (who has better facilities)says so.I get it.

What makes AFL fans worthy,,, well they show up for one. They fill stadiums, and they have been doing do so for many decades even when they had much more basic stadiums ... unlike any of the other football codes in this country. AFL stadium upgrades are demand driven to cope with the crowds - think Optus, Adelaide Oval, Marvel...the upgrade to Homesbush to deliver a 70K rectangle to codes that have never in their history delivered crowds at that level consistently for club games.

You'd be again incorrect with that assumption. Cricket is in reality a summer time sport, and neither the twain shall meet. Just like soccer is to a strong degree, but overlaps both rugby codes. BTW I stress I am not against governments proving funding to sports in general, as we are a sporting society with such wide range of choices. Every taxpayer who watches premier sports, should be able to do so in 21st century comfort.They all contribute to government coffers. My argument has been when you(an AFL fan) or others propose the NRL should not get any more contributions by Government, yet any stadiums improved or built are for the usage of 3 football codes, not for the sole privilege of rugby league.Especially after your code has all seater stadiums for all of their clubs thanks to in most cases government expenditure.Also money continues to be spent in large amounts ,such as the $225m revamp of Marvel Stadium precinct. What makes AFL and not the rectangular codes worthy of decent comfort for their fans? GWS and Swans have those facilities.That just smacks of arrogance. And I have also stated the NRL should contribute toward stadiums(as has V'Landys), even though the other codes I suggest will not have the capacity to do so.

Isn’t cricket and AFL multi-use? The way you carry on you’d think AFL venues are only used by the AFL.

I have heard different figures.The facts are, ANZ was after the Olympics was to be reconfigured to a rectangular one. The AFL lobbied for it to remain so then dumped it later, ala Blacktown style. LOL Rectangular codes are expected to put up with ANZ in this configuration, the Government was going to attend to that ,now it remains in situ.Yes I understand why the stadium ATM cannot be reconfigured. Whilst you sit back and lecture V'Landys for pushing for alternatives re stadiums ,whilst you had no trouble receiving large amounts from Govt, the AFL, and you'd been here a very short space of time. I bring it up, because you as an AFL propagandist ,tell the NRL(ignoring of course the other codes that benefit) what they should do about stadiums, whilst getting your own largesse. Don't do as I do ,do as I say.I don't go on to AFL threads lecturing them about issues. The Storm would not be playing in that new stadium, if an A league team had not come into the picture.Getting back to multi usage. An "expert on stadium funding "LOL, you don't even accept that rectangular stadiums benefits 3 football codes not just one. I don't need to be an expert on cost of Adelaide and Perth stadiums, the figures and the cost increases, have been publicised in the media.A 12 year old could understand.If it is nonsense ,then these stadiums must be made out of fibro. Cities need decent stadiums with decent facilities for attendees, whether it be for AFL/NRL/A League/R Union/concerts etc. Your last para ,of course you would say that, hardly unsurprising.Are you suggesting these new world class stadiums are not expensive and the taxpayer did not pay overwhelmingly for them? The old nothing to see here attitude.

I more or less agree with you….but that is also an example of what I’m talking about. Certain simple-minded RL journalists bleat on and on..and on.. about AFL getting public funds to build stadiums but they seemingly ignore that these aren’t simply mindless cash splashes. Optus Stadium was, as you say, a great investment preCovid – you have a stadium that was expected to be heavily used for 21 weeks of the year, plus finals, for the AFL and also for major cricket events and other major events – and it would draw interstate and overseas tourism. You could at least make the case. Instead we have Sydney RL journalists with FOMO whinging about the plight of their sport … wanting public money invested to upgrade massive stadium that will rarely be filled. The economics of any stadium rebuild or upgrade has to be judged on the merits in each case – instead we have childish and misguided RL journalists campaigning for stadium funding as some sort of equity issue. Either a stadium rebuild or upgrade makes sense economically or it doesn’t. Spending 800m to ‘upgrade’ a 70K stadium that will rarely be filled doesn’t seem like a good investment – I’m no expert but it doesn’t seem to add up to me.

Wasn’t it 10m that the AFL gave to ANZ remained viable for AFL games? Fact check. Whatever it was that was up to the good folk in charge at the time to make that call - nobody held a gun to their head and made them accept the AFL’s money... so please don’t cry about that now... it’s ancient history, and that agreement has a lapsed so why even bring it up. I’m glad you’re an expert on stadium funding in WA and SA... I think someone is just regurgitating nonsense they read by a certain deranged journalist whoSe main preoccupation seems to be perennially peddling conspiratorial nonsense about the AFL getting too much government funding. More than inaccurate it’s just boring - I guarantee we’ll see half a dozen more of essentially the same article before the end of the year. Same premise, same nonsense.

Yes, and rectangular stadiums are perfect for union and soccer. Most stadiums can be used for concerts etc. I'm not trying to do the due diligence for every stadium, but as per the original post, when people (some at least) think about who is/should be funding them, they are seeing the (total) cost as dead money, when in reality they tend to be marginal (financial) investments in their own right, with other non financial benefits, so who's best suited to fund the original capital. I live in WA, so I'll use the Optus stadium as an example. Building that was a big part of why the then Premier got voted out. The what a waste of money argument etc, but it is (was until COVID 19) running at around break even (incl. depreciation), is a world class facility for WA, and has even attracted tourism dollars with some of the events held there. From a state perspective it's been a great investment, but the maths (the financial returns) wouldn't add up for a private investor/s. It wouldn't make sense for the AFL to build it/own it, but it did/does make sense from a state perspective, even if it didn't froma political perspective (largely because common sense isn't that common).

No one's arguing that point GoGWS.The NRL should have had one by now, and probably would have ,if the money they had in the bank just prior to the SL war, had not been used up to sign players.They had $20m plus prior 1995. I repeatedly state and unashamedly so, any new stadiums will be used by 3 rectangular football codes, so 3 noses in the trough, they all benefit.And world cups for soccer and ru also.And the two new, well one ATM will be used by at least 3 NRL clubs in addition.You ignore these points. If you bother to check my comments,I have stated the NRL should spend some money on stadiums, even though they will be used by other rectangular codes. I notice your club was on the scene for a short space of time and had no difficulty getting your stadium up to scratch with Govt funding. And also from Blacktown council. Adelaide and Perth costs hundreds up to a billion dollars.So on your comments, one can suggest the AFL has the revenue to fund their stadiums, but they made a contribution, not funding the stadiums. The AFL have been experts at lobbying Govt for funding for many years, for new or upgraded grounds, for a one only winter code.Good on them, but to pretend they are contributing huge sums is stretching the truth. If the AFL hadn't put a couple of million into ANZ to ensure it remained the current configuration, the need for a rebuild to rectangle and the costs may not have been needed.Because a rectangular stadium was the intent for ANZ, post 2000 Olympics.So we are stuck with a stadium, that is ordinary viewing for rectangular sports. Ironic, GWS get $2m pa for 10 years to play a few games each year in Canberra, nose in the trough or good lobbying, plus ground improvements.Raiders and Brumbies still using Bruce and its antiquated facilities.

Also, you do realise that many key stadiums in the AFL are actually cricket grounds - so it’s a little more complicated picture than you make out.

One stadium is better than none.. and I admire that you can unashamedly talk about government largesse given how far the NRL has its nose in the trough… two shiny new stadiums and complaining they need more … look the NRL does in fact have the necessary revenue to sort out long term funding of its stadiums rather than just stand in the corner bleating and making empty threats to move its GF.

I have no problem with and expect the NRL contributing to a new stadium .Invariably most of those stadiums will be used by more than one rectangular code. My problem is with those who bag the code for asking for assistance, when their code has been the recipient of large amounts from both State and Federal Govt(ie taxpayers' money).The irony is overwhelming.No complaints then. I understand where you are coming from, but if you have the numbers,why not lobby the Govt for a new area of land to have a Speedway. If it was non private land, they should assist in that regard.If it was private land, there should have been decent recompense.just as there is for taking over housing for expressways. I've seen Taxpayer's dollars wasted on so many things in the past, and the public just let it go through to the keeper.

I'm losing the Speedway because of NSW Taxpayer dollars funding a 'marshaling yard'. But my statement holds true. If NRL wants a new toy, go pay for it themselves and they can have it.

Still involves taxpayers' money and involves a privately owned stadium spruce. And rest assured, FitzSimons doesn't believe there is any difference in the funds' source. Neither do many others. Bearing in mind about $40m in grants for Centres of Excellence, by NSW Govt to five clubs including the likes of Manly,Cronulla, Tigers.