There have been one or two benefits of lockdown in the UK, such as Sky Sports taking the opportunity granted by the blanket absence of live sport to broadcast some forgotten gems from their archives.
One of those jewels has turned out to be a reprise of the Wigan versus Bath double-header back in 1996.
Wigan were the English rugby league kingpins at the time, while Bath ruled union.
The two-match series was a dig in the ribs, a sharp reminder about the difficulty of arranging truly competitive matches in such different versions of rugby. Wigan won the league encounter 82-6:
Bath emerged victors in the return 44-19:
Over the entire piece, rugby league came out the winner. Even a cursory glance at the two highlights packages reveals Wigan to be far more advanced in their physical and technical preparation than their opponents.
Eight of those Wiganers either had, or went on to have, significant careers in the other code: Jason Robinson, Vaiga Tuigamala, Henry Paul, Garry Connolly, Martin Offiah, and Scott Quinnell as players; Andy Farrell and Shaun Edwards as coaches.
It was hardly surprising. Union had only turned professional the previous year, whereas league has always been a sport in which the players are paid (at least in part) to play.
The vast differences in amateur and professional approaches to a game played with the same ball always undermined a straightforward comparison between the codes. So too did the technical aspects of play in the front five forwards. Where league forwards had to be powerful, mobile ball-carriers (preferably with offloading skills) and defenders, the primary task of their union counterparts was always to scrum and win lineout ball.
But times have changed. The old amateur union ratio of two or three set-pieces to every ruck has spun on its heel – now the ratio is roughly one set-piece to every seven or eight breakdowns – and the body-shape of the code’s forwards has changed dramatically over the last 20 years.
That is the change which makes a clash between the All Blacks and Kangaroos far more appetising to the onlooker than it might have once been. New Zealand would now be able to field a very competitive team in terms of both athleticism and ball skills.
Brodie Retallick – although currently on sabbatical – is one of the All Blacks’ many handy forwards. (Photo: Matt King/Getty Images)
Here is my fantasy All Blacks rugby league side, with some allowable flights of fancy:
1. Charles Piutau*
2. Ben Smith
3. Ma’a Nonu
4. Anton Lienert-Brown
5. Nemani Nadolo* [Caleb Clarke]
6. Beauden Barrett
7. Aaron Smith
8. Brad Thorn* [Marino Mikaele Tu’u]
9. TJ Perenara
10. Jerome Kaino*
11. Sonny Bill Williams
12. Dalton Papalii
13. Ardie Savea
Firstly, pretend Brad Thorn is 20 years younger than he really is, and rewind Sonny Bill all the way back to his physical peak ten years ago.
Sprinkle in a couple of good ex-All Blacks now sightseeing around Europe (Jerome Kaino and Charles Piutau) and massive Fijian Nemani Nadolo who played 40 times for the Crusaders and proved to be the most physically dominant winger since Jonah Lomu.
Add in the most promising of a new crop from Super Rugby Aotearoa and, well, you get the picture.
There are three great playmakers at 6, 7 and 9 covering the creative needs in and around the play-the-ball and further out. There are five accomplished kickers, both right foot (Smith, Barrett and Nonu) and left (Piutau and Perenara).
The side features at least eight effective off-loaders in contact, and has smarts at the back to rival Billy Slater. Stir in a magical background of five seasons’ experience, and that team could give any in the NRL a run for their money!
Beauden Barrett playing league? He’d probably be alright. (Photo by Stu Forster/Getty Images)
I have tried to keep the side current and relevant by including some of the emerging talent thrown out by the recast Super Rugby Aotearoa tournament. Hence the options for Marino Mikaele Tu’u to replace Brad Thorn at number 8 and Blues winger Caleb Clarke to sub in for Nadolo on the left.
The one issue for a union team converting to league remains the chasm in the front five forward requirements. Outside the possibility of either Brodie Retallick or Patrick Tuipulotu, it was difficult to think of a union tight forward who could consistently run as hard in defence and attack as the sister code requires.
Three of the emerging players (Tu’u, Dalton Papalii and Clarke) were on duty in the game between the Blues and the Highlanders in the third weekend of Super Rugby Aotearoa. All had notable matches, while exhibiting skills which would be equally at home in both codes.
Eroni Clarke’s son Caleb could easily be a league back. He is very physical, a north-south runner who is low in the hips and hard to bring down. As the first try of the game demonstrated, he does not need much of a step off his left foot to take him through the tackle, those hips will do the rest:
It’s more of a shuffle than a definite step, but it gives the arm tackle no chance. That would be a clear bonus in periods where the forwards need to be spelled on hard-ball carries pushing out from the goalline.
Clarke also has excellent technique in the air. Imagine him defusing a bomb on the sixth tackle with the Kangaroos going for the kill in the red zone:
The technique is essentially that of an Aussie rules overhead mark, with knees high and the ball received well above the head:
Compare that with the skills advice in this AFL session:
The Blues scored their third try of the game less than 20 seconds after Clarke’s overhead take. He was back on his feet and making the crucial break and offload for the try by Rieko Ioane:
Whenever Beauden Barrett (kicking), Clarke (catching or chasing) and Papalii (picking up the pieces) were involved together, it was a triangle of effort which produced positive results for the Blues:
In the first example, Clarke knocks the restart down for Papalii to repossess, in the second he scares the bejesus out of Highlanders fullback Scott Gregory and the Blues number 7 is again first to pick up the loose ball.
Papalii and Barrett had already connected for the Blues’ second try via a kick down the left wing:
Another sequence in the first half featured a kick-pass direct from Barrett to Papalii creating the break for Clarke:
Papalii showed consistently good instincts in the wide areas throughout the match, staying in play under pressure and preserving the space on the extreme outside. Two neat offloads are enough to create another break for TJ Faiane.
Defensively, Papalii is very active and Clarke very aggressive. In the following sequence, the Blues openside has just competed at the tackle area before making two tackles on two consecutive plays, followed swiftly by a third in three:
Four direct involvements in 17 seconds represents the kind of reloading ability on defence that is applauded in league.
Caleb Clarke is a north-south defender who can generate a lot of muzzle velocity within a few strides. When Mitch Hunt evaded Clarke’s clutches on this inside force play, he ran straight into a turnover at the tackle:
Summary
There is no question that elite union teams like the All Blacks are better equipped than ever before to compete evenly, in a shared athletic and skills forum, with rugby league.
Twenty-five years of professionalism have changed body shapes, attitudes to conditioning and skills development dramatically. Union athletes now belong on league paddocks as they did not in the days of Wigan versus Bath back in 1996.
The only differences now would be experience in the code, and the long-standing discrepancy in front five forward core tasks. But union players from 6 to 15, in addition to exceptional big tight forwards like Pieter-Steph du Toit, would be fully fit for purpose – any purpose.
A number of the younger players emerging from Super Rugby Aotearoa possess skills cultivated from training with a multi-code background. Marino Mikaele Tu’u looks to have excellent offloading skills in heavy contact for such a big man, Caleb Clarke has AFL style receiving skills, Dalton Papalii has the ability and desire to get up off the ground and reload, play-in and play-out, in a league defensive set.
As all three progress towards full national recognition, they will draw on the water from that well. And if there ever is a meaningful cross-code series between league and union, they will be ready for that too.
Birdy
Roar Rookie
If you put a national rugby teams scrum up against heavyweight wrestlers ,I'm sure the rugby scrum would push them across 2 continents. So removing the competitive scrum is for safety not to give the roos a chance . RL got rid of the scrum for a lot of reasons, the main reason being no one liked them. If a side won the GF off a scrum penalty ,I'm sure the crowd would burn down the stadium. I'm sure humour is allowed.
piru
Roar Rookie
Only have to look at crossovers to gauge the games, league players into rugby teams works. I can’t recall any going the other way since the 80s Why would they? Sick of the bright lights Europe and want to play a simpler game for less money in a dreary industrial town? Come on down!
piru
Roar Rookie
So the roos would be slaughtered in scrums. Who cares. Competitive scrums would be banned for safety reasons. Correct, we'd need to remove key components of Rugby for the leaguies to have a chance
Mark
Guest
Papali'i is already an AB I believe - toured Japan 2018 I thought The Blues most likely to make the AB's this year is Hoskins Sotutu - easily the best No. 8 in SRA
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
The Welsh dual internationals of the 90s (Davies, Devereux, Gibbs) in a Tele story before the 99 cup all thought the Roos would give the WC a real shake with a tight head and a beanpole. They did, true. Then again all three really came in at the tail end of the amateur era in Union, before pro habits took hold...
Norm de plume
Guest
Tony Lockett would have been the world’s first goal-kicking, lineout-winning prop! Seriously though, the mind of a patriotic Aussie boggles when you look thru the roll of greats in the other two codes here and think what might have been had we like NZ embraced union early as the national winter sport. Wallaby teams studded with League and AFL greats, not just the flash merchants but the hard nuts, over the years would not have been ragdolled as they were and I have a pet belief the win loss would favour us, though not by as much as it favours NZ in the real world. Then of course there’s the fact that NZ nearly joined the Federation... we could all have been playing under the same flag. The Boks and the rest would be glad that did not occur...
Norm de plume
Guest
How did the darts athletes go?
Norm de plume
Guest
That is the big difference that I see. Union forwards need pushing strength for scrum, maul and breakdown while leaguies need the dynamism to bash it up for 5 before the kick or stop those bashes and race back ten. Both need strength and fitness but of a different kind. Gym bunnies are more likely to succeed in league, but raw boned farmer types do better in union. Which is why Thorn is a genuine great; he couldnt just do both he excelled at both, and so was one of the first names on the the team sheet for both the Roos and the Blacks. Unique. I think each code gave him an edge in the other too, whereas many cross coders, mostly backs of course, seem lost at least for a time. Re the proposed game, I think the ABs would win in any hybrid scenario which included a requirement for the relatively static pushing of union and the ability to retain possession in a contest for the ball. They would probably get close to the Roos in a straight game of league. But the Roos would get well dusted in a straight game of union (even with Tupou and say Arnold to make up the 15). This has only been true in the last few years I think. The Welsh dual internationals of the 90s (Davies, Devereux, Gibbs) in a Tele story before the 99 cup all thought the Roos would give the WC a real shake with a tight head and a beanpole. They were unanimous that League was tougher, faster, more demanding in their experience. I reckon that edge has whittled away to nothing now, and while the Roos of the great recent Qld era would have matched the equally great Black sides of their time, it is hard for me to see the current crop prevailing in any halfway fair hybrid.
piru
Roar Rookie
Lol no. No I'm not. If I were he'd be an All Black
EastsFootyFan
Roar Guru
As someone who follows both codes, I have to say I think the whole thing is a fools errand. On the fundamental skills - running, passing, tackling and kicking - the games are similar, but that’s it. As much as I’d love to see an the All Blacks play an Aussie side with the much faster reserves of talent the NRL has available than the Wallabies with the likes of Tedesco, Tommy Turbo, Wighton, Ferguson, the Morris boys, Keary, Munster, Smith, Crichton, Papalli, Haas, David Fifita, Cordner etc, at their core the games are just about different things. Rugby League is essentially a turn based sport more akin to American Football in how possession is assigned/won, whilst Rugby is actually close to Australian Football in that the game is a constant contest for possession. The trade off is that a constant contest makes for a messier game and more complex rule structure with stricter penalties for cynical play required, whilst a turn based system cleans that up and allows for a fast game with more flow and more attrition, but you lose an element of unpredictability. Those two things are just totally impossible to bridge and so you can’t meaningfully create a hybrid sport that is in any way balanced. It might sound a bit weird, but I actually think it would be easier to create a hybrid sport out of AFL and Union than league and union.
TimO
Roar Rookie
Of course the All Blacks are on a par with the Kangaroos as athletes. Of course the Kangaroos would easily beat the All Blacks in a game of rugby league. If the two teams played, and you wanted an even contest, it would have to be hybrid rules. However, that’s problematic too. It would be hard to find rules that made for a fair contest. If the scrums, rucks, mauls and throw-ins are not contested, the you have just got a variation of league, and the Kangaroos would win easily. If the scrums, rucks, mauls and throw-ins are not contested, the Kangaroos would have no hope and it would be even more one sided (easier for a union player to play league than a league player to play union, at least as far as forward play goes). So, basically a silly concept really. Who would win a grappling context, an Olympic gold medal wrestler or an Olympic gold medal judoka? Depends on the rules. Regarding selecting a ABs team to face the Kangaroos, hasn’t the cross-codes game been touted as 14 a side? If we are going to select an All Black team for league or for a league union hybrid, they wouldn’t need players (even though great players) who are now in twilight of career and have now moved on from the international game, they wouldn’t need Fijian internationals, and they definitely wouldn’t need to a time machine to fetch a young Brad Thorn. Anton Lienert-Brown, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Dalton Papalii and Ardie Savea would all go good. But what about Patrick Tuipulotu, Cody Taylor, Rieko Ioane, Dane Coles, Ngani Laumape, Scott Barrett, Jordi Barrett and Jack Goodhue, Tyson Lomax, Asafo Aumua, Sam Cane, Shannon Frizell and Via Fifita, Nepo Laulala, Ofa Tuungafasi and George Bridge? The concept is also a bit of a slap in the face for the Wallabies and the Kiwis. If they’re going to have a hybrid game, better to put some Wallabies in the Kangaroos team so they could cope with some form of contested scrums etc (and maybe some Kiwis in the ABs team).
No contest
Guest
Only have to look at crossovers to gauge the games, league players into rugby teams works. I can't recall any going the other way since the 80s. And I am talking established players here e.g. rogers, wendell, lote, thorn, sonny bill ect.
Simoc
Guest
Gallen has yet to say a useful thing on or off the field. But he still has time to educate himself.
CJ
Guest
League has changed a lot in the forwards. Its a very tight game now. Nearly all are robotic players who take the ball up quickly. Largely, gone are the play makers like Gavin Miller and SBW and the ball runners like Steve Menzies and Rod Reddy. Even those tough customers like Kaino would struggle taking the ball up. Union too has tightened up a lot. Its difficult for even good players to make the adjustment from 15s to 7s. Even making positional changes is hard. Look at the BB difficulties in replicating his devastating form at 10 to 15.
Simoc
Guest
Well having played both at rep level my head was spinning more in league in both countries as I used to get harder hits. Think I may have been a target in league, not in union where the targets are mostly 9 and 10. I'm doubtful Union guys can see out 80 mins of league. They'll need a big lead at halfway.
winston
Roar Rookie
ABs have everything to lose and nothing to gain. This game won’t happen. Clarke is well on his way to the black 11 Jersey
RobC
Roar Guru
Thanks Nick. I think the Ref plays a big role also. The rooms are quite good, very hard to beat. It's not just the fitness. I think the league attack regimes are more advanced than Rugby. Their defence is more potent. Having said that league players are not used to the constant running and rucking. It's much more tiring.
Scotty P
Roar Rookie
You're wrong.
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
Thanks both for the background!
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
Deffo not! :thumbup: