Three more overseas players set to join Wallabies on spring tour as Giteau Law sidestepped

Well, I am not the only one who believes the dumb Giteau Law should be dumped. People who are managing the code in the corporation boardroom and those chaps who ACTUALLY played the game at the highest level are on the same page on the issue. Note: Armchair Monday morning experts would serve the game better by listening to those who are currently involved knee deep in the game at the highest level. Read below https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/sports-games/1695799-rugby-former-wallaby-giteau-says-time-to-scrap-the-giteau-law?amp 17 August 2021 RUGBY – FORMER WALLABY GITEAU SAYS TIME TO SCRAP THE “GITEAU LAW” RA boss Andy Marinos said over the weekend that the rule, which excludes foreign-based players from Wallabies selection if they have less than 60 test caps, might be scrapped before the end of the spring tour. Former Wallabies centre Matt Giteau has backed Rugby Australia’s (RA) call to abandon the eligibility rule for overseas players, which is named after him, saying the country needs to pick its best team in the wake of another All Blacks thrashing. The rule was dubbed the ‘Giteau Law’ after former Australia coach Michael Cheika persuaded RA to ease a blanket ban on overseas-based players so he could select Giteau and winger Drew Mitchell for the 2015 World Cup in England. However, Giteau added his voice to calls to do away with the rule entirely in the wake of Saturday’s record 57-22 defeat by the All Blacks at Eden Park. RA installed its selection curbs as a means to retain talent in domestic rugby but the Giteau Law has failed to prevent a host of top Australian players heading overseas to take up more lucrative contracts. RA watered down the Giteau Law for Australia coach Dave Rennie when he took over last year, allowing him to pick any two overseas-based players he wanted. Giteau said, “For me, it was unreal that they brought in a rule which allowed myself and Drew (Mitchell) to be available for a World Cup and for me to get to 100 tests,” he told the Sydney Morning Herald. “For that, I’m forever grateful … But moving forward, I think the Wallabies need to do whatever they can to be as competitive as they can. “At the highest level, like the Wallabies, ultimately, it’s about winning. Pick your best team and be as strong as you can. I’m all for any choice the people higher up make if it’s going to benefit the Wallabies and Australian rugby.” RA installed its selection curbs as a means to retain talent in domestic rugby but the Giteau Law has failed to prevent a host of top Australian players heading overseas to take up more lucrative contracts. RA watered down the Giteau Law for Australia coach Dave Rennie when he took over last year, allowing him to pick any two overseas-based players he wanted. Once ranked second in the world after the All Blacks, the Wallabies have slumped to seventh since reaching the final of the 2015 World Cup. Their back-to-back defeats at Eden Park over the past two weeks ensured New Zealand retained the Bledisloe Cup, the annual trophy contested by the trans-Tasman nations, for a 19th successive year. Former Wallabies assistant coach Laurie Fisher said Australia could no longer operate without full access to their best talent. “Need a full deck to work out our best hand. Build base and roof simultaneously,” the ACT Brumbies forwards coach tweeted.

You have not made any substantive argument on the benefit of keeping the dumb law. Likewise your wordy opinion without much substance for a counter argument is as worthless in forwarding an intellectual discourse on the issue. Just rantings for an argument.

Sensible arguments can be made for and against the retention of the Giteau Law. The fact that respected writers such as Geoff and Nick can hold opposing, rational views shows that. The problem is that no one can know the effect in advance. It's possible that keeping it kills the game, losing it kills the game and there is no good option. It's possible that we can dig our way out of the hole without making any changes. We've seen the effect that making minor additions to the national team over recent weeks but we have seen how that affects player retention. The results so far are positive but at what cost? People coming out with strident, simplistic and unsupported "solutions" aren't helping do anything other than drag the level of discourse down.

I get it. Like all the rest of the people that comment on these pages you have an untested and untestable theory about how some simple change is going to revitalise rugby in Australia. Only a handful of people like Geoff Parkes have spent the time to really show the delusion behind all of these simple answers. Rugby might die a slow death in its current form in AU. There are money pressures from multiple avenues, but what is clear is that Super Rugby is currently a pillar supporting rugby in AU from a depth and development and commercial standpoint. For you to dismiss the effect that removing the Giteau Law would have on it, saying, and I quote you here, "Its[...] serves no purpose" is to ignore that it is currently a pillar. Such a flippant dismissal means that I, and others, can dismiss your comment with the same level of regard.

It's interesting how a bunch of Aussies, who are typically private school educated, free market capitalists, want to regulate the code out of business. The reality is, we either take on a growth mindset and take advantage of the opportunities the internationalisation of the game present, or Rugby Australia keep living in the past. 1) Drop the Giteau law and embrace the change. 2) Lobby for the inevitable global calendar, that NH clubs will also need when their SH stars are being called up for Internationals in test Windows out of sync with their seasons. 3) Use the proceeds from the new HUGE revenue streams unlocked by the global calendar and the broadcast rights associated with it to invest in new blood and secure key talent for Super rugby and NRC (or equivalent). Ironically, there would be a global flatenning in such a situation. The global calendar is the method of redistribution away from the current structure with a few European and Japanese *superclubs*.

Understood Markus. We are in the same choir. I was clarifying the record, just in case. In a world where mobs rule some players attract more myth than fact.

Rona is too slow for test rugby. He was also poor in super rugby.

I was referring to 2019 being Cooper's last season in Australia and so Rennie initially had no opportunity to even look at him as an option in 2020. You won't get any arguments from me about how poorly Cooper was managed by both Cheika and Thorn, despite being the best flyhalf we have seen in a Wallabies jersey since Larkham.

Plus he just does mad stuff. Overplays his hand, runs sideways. He's a good bench player, that's it.

Sumimasen ... but ... [and off he goes].

“ Cooper, Lealiifano and Foley all departed at the same time in 2019” Marcus, QC did not ‘leave’. He was discarded well before 2019. He was playing in Japan at WC time. Whatever, I am glad now his legacy wasn’t further soiled by an unbalanced squad playing under an unhinged coach. Am I the only one noticing how a playmaker makes better plays when forwards go forward, chasers chase and backs back up?

I know why we have the law, it's logical and makes perfect sense. The only problem is, Australian rugby is dying a slow death. There are many reasons for that, not just the Giteau law, but I don;t think having a weak National team helps. I'm also not convinced by the argument that Super rugby will necessarily just die if we scrap the law. That's an assumption that people make which has not been tested. The fact is, the game is unfortunately tethered in popular imagination to WBs success (which I blame Super rugby being put behind a pay wall for). A better WBs will bring more people to the game, maybe they will go to Super games, more fans, more cash, more money to pay players who ALL aren't going to go overseas. I had sympathy for the counter-argument that adding a few players would not change the outcome of games. And yet, we do look better with a few extra players don't we. Adding Skelton and Arnold will help in my opinion, as may Curtis Rona as another centre/wing option if Kerevi and Marika are not playing. Anyway, it all may be a disaster, but it's already a bit of a disaster. Let's see what happens.

Interesting how different sports can have such a positive impact. Sevens does not get the respect it deserves. It's short, but a continuous series of 20 to 60 m sprints with collisions. With rugby being so stop start I can see how sevens might be good preparation. Also, he needed to improve his passing. I recall Jarred Hayne said he;d never trained as hard when he was playing NFL. And then when he went to sevens they felt he was not fit enough.

Unfortunately Rennie didn’t have the benefit of an ideal young ten on-boarding method. Cooper, Lealiifano and Foley all departed at the same time in 2019 and left a generational void of flyhalves in Australia. And then O’Connor has been injured and Toomua a combination of injured and severely out of form. The key thing to stress with Lolesio is that he hasn’t been just a project, given all of the above he was legitimately the most experienced and in-form flyhalf in Australia, right up until Cooper was made available. The only more experienced players were journeymen Lance and Jake McIntyre and I doubt anyone has seriously been demanding their call-up.

maxxlord, Thanks. That’s exactly the point I intended in my post without having to give all the gory details which ‘carnivean’ doesn’t seem to get it. Perhaps I should write a 100-page thesis on why Giteau Law should be scrapped for some people to get it.

I remember moving back to NZ about 10 yrs ago and having this fantasy of my family having a lovely cheap lamb roast every Sunday, because that is one of the delicacies that NZ is renowned for producing. Only to find that the locals are denied the best of their locally produced wares, which fetch much better prices in richer markets. Leaving us with the C & D grade dregs at the market level. So I think this is where my view of global money comes, with opportunities for the poor (to work) and the rich (to consume the best the world has to offer). With nothing to offer for the ever shrinking middle. As a aside I now have some sheep that have turned into a very nice Sunday roast, I'm not sure how, but that must somehow fit into my metaphor as a rugby solution (embrace being amateur and be good?).

They say change is a constant and adaption is key to evolution. So I hope it works out as a positive for our unions. As this feels more like a concession from us to the harsh realities of global money. With our Pacific Island talent, we could become a unnecessary middle man stepping stone that they bypass. Pardon me for going straight to negative hypotheticals. But just thinking about League and AFL in Oz. Although like everyone they probably want to expand more globally for more revenue. The blessing for their fans may be in the fact that can sustain a healthy national competition with limited outside talent grabs (or opportunities presented). I’m bad with change I must admit. For now I must admit seeing Latu, Skelton and Arnold together playing in gold is an exciting prospect and we all want to be the strongest we can be when it comes to national representation. So I’ll leave it there.

Theoretically correct. QC has very clearly said he wants to tour europe but it is up to his japanese club, if they let him. He understands if they don't and is grateful they let him play the RC.

Yes, because Australian teams are performing SO well in Super Rugby under the Gitea Law :laughing:

In a perfect world a Pacific competition would comprise teams based in a certain city or area but have no constraints from where it sources it's players that would keep Pacific guys closer to there homelands and give Australia much needed depth in its franchise.Teams could poach from anywhere and the old territory system would have to go .The way it is now is a slow dying horse ,I know the NZ s won't like it but what good are you if you don't have competition .They can pick the all blacks based on form from that Pacific forum competition whether it's from a team based in n.z Japan or Perth .The whole concept needs expanding before it's too late.As for picking the best wallabies now we simply have to because if they keep losing no one will watch them and that goes for the young.