'Exceptional cricketer' Paine returns to the field in Ashes bid

The debate is now over General. Paine has stepped down as he should. I told you he wouldn’t make it this summer a year ago and alas on this sad note his career is over . Shame he didnt step down as captain after indian defeat or after the concrete pitch autobot wins against nz and pakistan . he knew of his sexting issue coming back to bite him as its not the standard an australian captain sets. He held on to long. Ego and age. A great keeper at his prime as I’ve always said and for two years he stepped in to an interim role to assist his country. It just went on to long and his leadership has cost australia to fatally on several occasions since. Now Its time for Carey. As I predicted he will be our keeper. The upside is you can now watch a guy in his prime for Australia and also we have the talented Inglis and Pierson in the wings if it doesn’t work out . All upside for Australia. Now the openers issue seems to be the biggest issue remaining and rotations at mcg/scg which they never seem to do at our peril

Yes. And India is in a real trough at the moment.

He sure loves playing India who are on top now 217/4 Jamieson 3/38

Jamo is just a Shaky Island bully. No threat to McGrath...even today.

He'd average less than Chris Martin if he played against Jamieson.

He didn't play in the shield because CT were told by medical staff to ease him back in through this current game. He's kept for 167 overs taking 8 catches. His keeping form was first class. He will also play in Tassie's ODI match against WA tomorrow. That's 5 days cricket straight.If he gets through that would say there is nothing wrong with his fitness, other than more batting practice. By the way both Smith and Warner have not played a first class match since March, which is nearly 9 months ago. All they have had is a couple of ODI games, and the hit and giggle of the T20 WC. I could argue that they are short of red ball cricket as much as Paine.

Paine playing seconds . Hasnt played any professional cricket for 9 months on that basis alone he needs matches and shouldn't be selected as he's not captain . Seems absurd to select him with one seconds match in 9 months no matter what other keepers are doing . The pitch Carey is playing on is tricky and full of demons they've all struggled up there except a gritty labs innings where he nearly broke his thumb and heads second innings . You can't compare that match to the nobodies seconds match Timmy is playing in. Why he didn't play for tassie in shield is another concern . He's not ready either way

Oh Paine got only 7 in the second innings. I will await your further comments etc. By the way Carey out for 3 today. Last 4 shield innings 6, 7, 0, and three. He is in great form. Don't carry on about his average last year, it is ancient history.

Maxwell is the interesting one. Never really considered him a test cricketer, but will concede that he was never given a chance to play anywhere outside of the sub-continent. I guess we will never know. And I missed Phil Hughes in checking performances in tests. His average of 32.6 is the same as Paine. I don't think he was as good as certain people made out.

Really think Maxwell could've been a success at test level if given a proper chance. And the disgraceful way they treated Rob Quiney (thrown to the wolves in a debut series against a rampant SA, while golden boy Phil Hughes got protected and got recalled immediately for the follow up against a mediocre SL) really made my blood boil! :angry:

For interest sake those with inferior averages to Paine are Cowan, Wade, Henriques, Maxwell, Bailey, MMarsh, Neville (as keeper in reference to Paine), Maddinson, Bancroft, Finch, and Harris.

Yes for the most part the batting has been disappointing. I checked the averages for all our specialist batters since Paine and Smith both made their debut in 2010. Of the 23 players who have been selected as specialist batsmen since then 11 have worse test batting averages than Paine. S Marsh, Renshaw and Green are about the same as Paine. Burns, Hanscomb, Head ans Khawaja have an average of between 37 and 40. Only Smith, Voges, Labs and Warner are above 48. So in effect 19 out of 23 players selected as specialist batters have an average of 40 or less. I think we can thank our exceptional bowling attacks over those years for most of our wins. Obviously Smith and Labs have contributed greatly to wins with their batting. On checking I realize I missed Kurtis Patterson who played two tests, batted twice and has an average of 144.

Yeah, that's the major issue that within the last half a dozen years that Marnus is the ONLY batsman to join Smith & Warner in cementing their spots in the test top six. And we know Warner is too often mediocre to poor overseas, most notably as shown as with that absolutely dire 2019 ashes series! So Paine is often having to try to play a backs to the wall innings with Australia 5/200- or less, and not having the chances to cash in where he comes in at 5/350+. Plus the captaincy burden as well is presumably playing a part.

Yes good point re the batting. I checked some averages. S.Marsh 38 tests av 34.3, Mitch Marsh 32 tests av 25.2. Harris early stages of his career, but not good so far av 23.8. Khawaja and Head both around the 40 mark, which is just ok for front line test batters. Even Green with an av of 33.7 still has a way to go. Hope Green lives up to his promise and increases that average considerably. Will we rely on Smith, Labs and maybe Warner to do most of the scoring.?

Or...just disagree without agreeing to. That's what happens with opinions.

Let's just agree to disagree.

He was. Mind you he was heading through his middle 30s then. Watling was just a fill in keeper when they were unable to find one. It happens in a population of only 5M. Mind you, he is definitely in the best million.

To be fair, the batting has been mediocre to horrendous since then as well. Senior guys like S. Marsh, Khawaja etc (expected to step up in Smith & Warner's absence) failed, plus younger guys expected to improve (Head, Harris etc) haven't stepped up either. Paine has been pretty solid in my opinion in a lot of dire batting circumstances not of his making!

Wicketkeeping stats aren't definitive, but they definitely aren't meaningless. They can still help paint a picture of a player's ability, as long as you take them as part of a whole. Those in the industry - such as Darren Berry - rate Paine amongst the best glovemen they have ever seen. And its not as if Paine has been keeping to bowlers significantly better than those Gilly and Healy had. There is also no way Paine is 'a long way behind' Rahim or Sarfaraz. Both only average a few runs more with the bat, while Paine is miles ahead of old cymbals Sarfaraz as an actual keeper. I also don't think we've seen enough of Rizwan to call him a 'big five' test keeper, despite how impressive he looks.

Sorry mate, but you’re wrong. Ronchi played T20s and ODIs (because he was a much faster scorer than Watling). He only played 4 tests for NZ (3 as a specialist no 5 in India while Watling kept, and one as the keeper in England in 2015 as Watling couldn’t keep and Watling instead played as a specialist batsman and scored a match winning 100). BJ Watling played 75 tests. If AB De Villiers isn’t included, he’s regarded as one of the best keeper batsmen since Gilchrist (along with De Kock and perhaps Prior, although Prior’s keeping was a bit sloppy). I know you probably rate Ronchi bcos he played for WA, but he wasn’t as good as Watling.