This time 30 years ago, South Africans were getting ready to be included in Super 10. Having only the Currie Cup for so long, people looked forward to seeing their teams take on the best of the South Pacific.
For the South Pacific nations, this could have been a big risk, as money was small. But by 1996 money had got in the way of a great format that shrunk the southern hemisphere’s commercial market and sent hundreds of homeless players abroad for professional contacts.
The European cups are modelled on Super 10, and in 1995 France, Ireland, Wales, Italy and Romania sent their best to the European Rugby Champions Cup. But 1995 was the last time that both Europe and the south would be on the same page. SANZAR was created with a lot of money behind it, and it all became about money and not about developing professional rugby.
New Zealand and Australia reformed Super Rugby into their domestic league from 1995. By 1998 South Africa had no choice but to make Super 12 their domestic league. It was completely different to what had made Super 10 great and sadly left the non-Super Rugby teams dying in the shadows.
On the other side of the world, Europe had taken their version of Super 10 and made it to include a lot more clubs. It was the interleague format that was important to them. They wanted their domestic leagues. and this was the cherry on the cake.
Thirty years on and a different South Africa become the first and possibly only nation to take part in both Super 10 and the Champions Cup, and it was the tenth nation to be part of the European cups.
South Africa will have five teams taking part – four via their domestic league and one invited. In future years the Currie Cup’s best non-qualified team could take that fifth place.
Super Rugby, on the other hand, has gone from being probably better than the six nations to now fighting it out with Japan and Pro D2 in France as the fourth best league. The Champions Cup average attendance at its highest was just over 15,000, well below the 25,000-plus over Super 12, but it is made special by being an interleague tournament, something Super Rugby is unlikely to be again.
I will use Ireland as an example of how Australia, with much better players, could have had the same benefits. In 1995 both countries had strong domestic club scenes powered by lots of small historical clubs. Both nations entered regional teams made up of the best players of the clubs, and both realised the regional teams needed to be professional. Australia had only a sledgehammer in Super Rugby, while Ireland had the URC and European cups that proved to be more supportive in developing weaker areas.
Munster are like the Brumbies, and their journey starts in the 1998-99 season of the Champions Cup after having a poor season up till then. Ulster won the Champions Cup and Munster made the quarter-final. Ireland had been terrible at Test level, so this win was a big surprise. That year Munster’s group attendances were 1500, 2000 and 4000. Little did people know that the red army and Thomond Park would become feared around Europe.
In 1999-2000 in their three group games they had 6500, 8000 and 10,000 people in attendance, three times the previous year’s total. Then 13,400 people showed up for the quarterfinal win, leaving them with an away game against the biggest team in Europe.
(Photo by Matthew Lewis/Getty Images)
I remember the match, when people like me fell in love with rugby. Young players who would go on to be seen as generational talents, took the field, with a young Ronan O’Gara helping take them to the final. Sadly O’Gara was not the player he became and missed kicks, but the fans poured in all the same.
It was this team that powered the rise of Ireland in the 2000s. In May 2006 people cried as they finally landed the holy grail, making up most of the 74,534 fans that attended the final.
The Brumbies were given a place in Super Rugby 12 and were never going to lose it. The fans did not get the away days of Super 10, and if they didn’t attend, there was always next year. It’s hard to go on a journey when the road is clearly laid out. Until the play-offs, Super Rugby struggled to be important, and more started just watching the play-offs with few giant kills.
With the Champions Cup, the groups were important and fans could forget about a bad season for a few weeks.
Connacht entered European rugby thanks to the Challenge Cup being created in 1996. They went on runs here and there but the prize for them was Champions Cup qualification. They entered the competition in the 2011-12 season, having shown their worth for years in their domestic league. But for the ten years of waiting, they were a functioning team. They sold more season tickets than their average attendance for the previous seasons. If they failed, they still would exist.
For many European teams the Challenge Cup is the pathway to improving their domestic form, as they improve weaknesses other styles expose and experience high-pressure games. Toulon, Connacht, Montpellier and others have used it to win their leagues. Lyon won it last year and it was their first major trophy, which is also important. The Force and Rebels were given none of that development before being thrown to the sharks in Super Rugby.
They didn’t get to play NPC or Currie Cup teams in Super Rugby. They were expected to go from zero to 100 in a season. A team like Connacht had over ten years of Challenge Cup and domestic games, which allowed them to improve their feeder clubs and discover who they were. When they entered the Champions Cup, it was with squad that had been together rather than just assembled.
Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy created their own league to provide teams with games to prepare for European rugby. I am sure that Rugby Australia and the Pacific Islands would have formed a domestic league with three Pacific Island teams and five Australian sides to form an eight-team league. It was not cheap, but it forced the unions to make hard calls, something Australia still has to fully do. Rugby Australia could have funded two development teams and built them up over time, much like Connacht.
Both Super Rugby and European rugby had a civil war over teams and money. Europe’s fight was over whether the URC should be treated as a league or whether the unions should still get teams based on the 2000 agreement when the URC did not exist. The result was that fewer teams from the URC went into the Challenge Cup but could still exist as professional outfits. Super Rugby’s battle was about which teams were going to have to give up professionalism.
I don’t know if part of the Super 12 money was that it had to be the top league, but based on South Africa in the first two years, it would appear not. With only 12 professional teams in Super Rugby compared to the at least 20 teams that fed into Super 10 via domestic leagues, a lot of teams had to give up professionalism or move to Europe, which had about 40 teams in its two cups.
Maybe it was this hurt that South Africa and Australia had gone through, which New Zealand doesn’t understand, that made their reaction to the leak of the Aratipu report so hard to understand. They saw no issue with looking at cutting more teams as they tried to streamline Super Rugby even more. At least this time Rugby Australia and South Africa refused to be the willing participants they had been a few years earlier.
We have gone back nearly 30 years with South Africa again sending their top league teams into the best club competition in the world. On the other side of the Indian Ocean they have gone back to a bigger version of the Super Six. It could have been so different if all that Super 12 money had helped turn the Currie Cup and NPC into the southern version of the Premiership and Top 14, with Australia heading a southern URC.
Maybe the world club championship makes Super Rugby Pacific turn things around – or will Japan take half their spots?
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
Thankfully WR has nothing to do with 6Ns or Rugby Europe competitions. It’s a lesson South America have learned which is why they will have as many teams as Africa, Asia and North America combined at the WC. Just look at what the Pacific Cup 2013 or 2014 was and then WR changed their mind. Oz women are now at the mercy of WR while Spain will still have home games in their annual competition. Spain Women 148 tests, Oz 57 of which about half where because of the WC. Good luck with Pacific 4 series run by WR and the mess that will be.
fiwiboy7042
Roar Rookie
You again misunderstand the role that SANZAAR plays. SANZAAR is not an alliance of national unions like the 6N. It governs a particular competition; that is all. And NZ and Australia do run a Super women’s competition; NZ also had a domestic women’s competition that feeds into that. There is also a U20 competition. RA is more handicapped for obvious reasons. You also appear not to grasp the realities; NZ Rugby is not flush with cash. The PE deal is a new one and aimed at the game domestically. It is the European-based WR who should be leading the way on helping lower tier unions. Their priorities seem to lie with Europe; out of sight and out of mind and all that.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
Same level in terms of playing level and player production. Since 95 the 6Ns has added Italy and played games against T2 teams from Europe and beyond. It established the Women and under 20s and European Cups which have helped support teams from Spain, Russia, Romania. Romania were in European Cups for over 10 years and Italy were in them before they got into the 6 nations. Add in the T2 European players in the leagues. Just look at how many games outside the WC that 6N teams have played home and away v PIs and when it comes to T2 European teams it's even more lopsided. Yes 6N can do more but SANZAAR won't even run a Women or u20 each year for its existing partners, instead RA and NZ will be stuck in a WR comp that will pay little and is unfit for growth and leaves out the bigger markets of SA and Japan. If WR had pumped as much money into Georgia, Romania etc as they did Argentina and the PIs it may well be a 10Ns rather than a 6N, but Rugby Europe is doing a good job and is moving to an 8 team top division and runs the Super Cup that is building nicely plus 7s, underage and womens. The B6N have sent 5 teams to the World Cup since expansion in 1999 and have progressively passing previously better T2 sides.
fiwiboy7042
Roar Rookie
I freely admit to not knowing too much about the European rugby scene, especially the mainland scene. I'm happy to admit that. But I grew up in the SP rugby scene. NZ, and perhaps less so Australia, have consistently helped the PI unions over the decades in terms of player development. I do not understand why you think NZ and Australia were better placed to help the Island unions in 1996. NZ and Australia came close to being lost to the game in 1996. You also need to understand that SANZAR then, and still is today, was ALL about the Super Rugby competition. It is a commercial organisation with a clearly defined goal. It's not SANZAR/SANZAAR's role to develop other countries unions. That why it differs from the 6N or any national union. It's the Australia and NZ unions that help the Island unions; you may as well have a go at the European Cup for not helping to develop rugby in Ukraine, Russia (whoops!), Finland or Norway. Or Zanzibar! That $550m SANZAR got in 1996 was survival money; there was NO LEEWAY for any of that money to be spent on the Island unions. in 1995 when the PIs were on the same level as Ireland and Wales and better than Italy, Argentina and Japan ummmm, what? Level how? Please explain. :happy:
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
Considering I have never earned over €15 it is maybe you who doesn't understand where countries like Ireland and Romania were back then or even now for eastern europe. Even North Africa was in Europe until WR put them in Africa. In 2000 I was earning about $5ph as Ireland was still poor, Didn't have a Tv till 1990 and a phone till late 1990s. Ireland runs a professional soccer league by paying players just above average wage, not every player needs to earn what other players earn in the top leagues which nations all over Europe understand on loads of sports. Do you think players in the European Super Cup are earning as much as Dura or Mona, what about Currie Cup. Do you think players in the Romanian leagues are earning as much as they are. The point is that which you seem to miss is that NZRU and RA were better placed to help the PIs in 1995 then they are now but are able to do it now when they have no money. Do you think that Italy's jump in revenue may be to do with how much more commercialized rugby is in Europe being able to maximize South African potential more than SR could. Even if you look at League or even minor sports in the South Pacific have they done better commercially than Rugby considering the $550m SANZAR had to play with in 1995. One thing that is often overlooked is that it has been the 6Ns and not SANZAR that has given the PIs more games at test level (and toured the islands) and employed more of their players than nations closer who had the money to do it in 1995 when the PIs were on the same level as Ireland and Wales and better than Italy, Argentina and Japan.
fiwiboy7042
Roar Rookie
South of France and Italy are warm too Do you understand the difference between warm and hot? June-August in the SH is winter, a winter that is warming up! Night time temperatures for game make for little differences; that's how hot it is getting down here in the SH. And excuse me for thinking Ireland and Italy manage the game better than NZ (for one) given that Ireland has ONLY beaten NZ 3-4 times in 110 years (all of it recently and with Kiwi input to boot) and Italy never!
fiwiboy7042
Roar Rookie
I would reckon they could raise enough money to pay 30 rugby players 20-30c an hour and then pay the same players the same money they were paying them during the international windows. What an amazingly heartless comment from someone who most likely earned $30-$90 an hour (see the difference?) in that era if not now! BTW: here's how to judge wealth across the NH-PI divide: if you drive a car, regardless of model or make, you are wealthy. Sounds nonsensical to those in the NH but absolutely true to those in the PI nations of the SH (excluding NZ). As I have already said: you CANNOT compare the economies of Europe to the Pacific Islands. Come on down some time and enjoy the difference! Italy from 2011-20 saw income go from €37m – €46m over 10 years. Since CVC and SA became their partners revenue 21/22 has gone up to €74m. Wow!! Just wow! That italicised statement above just proved my point! Once again, BNHF, you proved my point. Stop comparing SP rugby to NH rugby!! I have to ask: Were you even born in 1996?
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
I wouldn’t call the NRL going from 20 teams to 14 teams that had all been established but needed to reduce as waring sides came together to from one league and as a result needed to merge teams the same as SR. The 5 Oz teams in Super Rugby were made up on states. If the SS and HC had combined to make an NRC then we would have seen that. Simple thing is that the majority of support for non test rugby came from NSW and Queensland, They only had one team each with all those fans either sticking with their club or moving to the Reds/Tahs, Brumbies had a lesser league but still had enough support. When the Rebels and Force were formed 40% of Oz teams were in difficult areas to make money while there was only two real teams that could be profitable. In 1998 with 20 teams 9 were outside the Sydney greater area with 11 (55%) in it. While some did merge (if they hadn’t they would never have got to 14) Greater Sydney still makes up a large chunk of fans while the same area has one SR side. For years the Tahs would have got more at a game but its appeal is limited while the League teams could reach a much bigger fan base and also build up. If there was a second team from NSW and Queensland do you think the TV deal might be bigger than the current one in OZ.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
I would reckon they could raise enough money to pay 30 rugby players 20-30c an hour and then pay the same players the same money they were paying them during the international windows. Again SR12 had $50-55m per year just in TV money. they could have given Each of the three nations $1m each and allowed them to the players double the local wages. Best players may have moved on but its not any different from now. It was only in 2014 that the Top 14/D2 passed the $55m which had 75/25 split. Prem has not reached that much in TV revenue and URC may have just reached it. I know the $55m was also for 3N matches but that deal was so far above anything else they had more than enough that they could have thrown $3m to the PIs and help support them. Italy wasn’t really generating much income before the 6 nations. Just on aside Italy from 2011 – 2020 saw income go from €37m – €46m over 10 years. Since CVC and SA became their partners revenue 21/22 has gone up to €74m. Part will be CVC but not €28m but it shows that if the PIs had been made part of SANZAAR even just getting a little share (say 10% between them) they could have built up over time. 6Ns is a cash cow and I get that but SANZAR has not been as commercially smart when you compare where they sat in 1995 knowing they had a massive TV deal for 10 years to build a solid foundation which I think should have involved the PIs, but that boat has sailed sadly and there does not seem to be any appetite to bring Fiji into the RC
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
South of France and Italy are warm too and they manage to play in June and August. If they can play NPC SS/HC in Aug-Oct they can probably play SR in the same time period. Also games can be played in the evening at 8pm (France start some games at 9/10pm). Maybe the weather just doesn't suit, yet another let off for RA/NZRU why they can be expected to manage rugby as well as Ireland or Italy.
fiwiboy7042
Roar Rookie
I don’t understand how RA and NZRU have not worked out that their season is too short and when SRP came up with a shorter season than SR2020 I was surprised. Here's why you don't understand: 1. the Australian winter (and by default NZ) is shrinking. To hear about UK complaints of 32-35 degree heatwaves is much cause for laughter (it gets much hotter in Aust than that!). BTW: the hottest Aussie temperature I've experienced, in southern (NSW) climes, was 48 degrees; down to a cool 36 degrees at midnight! 2. RA and NZR still have different seasons; the climates that produced different styles of rugby! 3. And can I just add: the SH doesn't have to worry about Mad Cow Putin!!
Greco Dominicus
Roar Rookie
We are enjoying the URC and Champions Cup. In Cape Town for Christmas gonna catch the Stormers Bulls Derby on Friday and the Lions game in New Years Eve. Gonna be awesome.
fiwiboy7042
Roar Rookie
How much money do you think a game in Fiji could have generated in 1995 when people were paid 20 cents, or less, an hour for a 14-16 hour day!
jeznez
Roar Guru
Sure but NRL still reduced the number of teams in the heartland.
Rob9
Roar Guru
I completely understand how big the T14 is. I don’t think you understand how little people in this corner of the world care for it. You’re just not getting much here Brendan; as suggested by the fact that you’re producing the 4-year TV revenue figure which has got nothing directly to do with the fact the players are paid in hundreds of thousands, not 10’s of millions like they are in the global sporting leagues that have significant influence and audience pull beyond their borders. Influence and audience pull that no rugby competition (not even the T14) is close to. Also, the fact that they’re not competing for soccer and basketball players means nothing. Do you not understand that the Top 14 is but a spec when held up to leagues in other sports that do manage to draw in significant interest beyond their own domestic footprint? This (mass interest and fan bases outside of France) isn’t a reality for the Top 14 and nor will it become a reality with rugby’s footing sitting so far below the likes of soccer, basketball and American football (the last 2 aided by being embedded in the market of the most significant cultural influencer globally) that it just isn’t funny. Again, I come back to your point; Top14 jerseys on kids in Western Sydney is fanciful. Are you starting to get some of this at all? Sure, the Top14 is the most significant player in rugby’s global landscape. I’ve not suggested otherwise. But there is and will continue to be money and influence in rugby that sits outside of France that will limit that power-base to ensure it doesn’t become what the ‘NBA is to basketball’. For instance, have a look at the number of ‘top tier’ rugby players who aren’t playing in France. It’s not a small list. Meanwhile in basketball, if you’re in your prime and up there with the best- you’re in the NBA. No questions.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
Most WCs are close. To base leagues off results would be to say that French Soccer is above English or Italian and it's been 36 years since Arg won. Believe it or not Rugby in Europe has lots of surprises. If you look at last season's European Champions La Rochelle and Lyon had never won a Top level trophy before in over 100years yet somehow won. The fact that Stormers won when at the start of the season they were threaten to have their place pulled just shows what an achievement it was. I guess NH will just never make it because they never have. Thankfully nations and players believe things can change. I am happy for NZRU and RA that things a rosy but the rest of the rugby world seems to be changing and more and more people in Oz seem to want change too.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
There are 9 teams in NSW not 1, HC and SS fans have one team each to support in Unions heartland. Do you think a second team in SS or HC areas would get more than the rebels. NRL has expanded but powered by its base. SR12 was the last time more teams came from the heartland in Oz than outside it. You cant expect Tahs to pick up as much as two teams in NSW, they will get more than one but less overall. NZ would of had more people from Auckland engaged in SR if North Harbour and Auckland had stayed as teams and both would have got more than the Highlanders. Once your heartland isn't powering the competition it becomes alot harder to fund expansion.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
It's NRL are able to fill their teams. It's rubbish when people say Oz can't field 5 compeditive teams as if they brought players back they would have more than enough. The issue RA has is SRP and RC don't pay the bills because if those two generated 10m more per year they could employ the same number of players but pay 40% more.
BleedRedandBlack
Roar Rookie
You do realize quite how many nearlys you have used as evidence, while ignoring all the nearlys in the other direction, like England needing extra time to beat Oz in 03, or Oz nearly beating France and Ireland away this year, despite being at a low point? The overall picture remains, of a stark long term performance division in at international level, and with the only test at club level coming up in favour of SR. Again, for all the special pleading about squads and results, the Stormers/WP never won SR in 24 years of trying, despite SA having the best players SA had to offer for most of those years. Only the Bulls did. Mean team. Yet in their first year the Stormers won URC, beating a team, the Bulls, which turned Leinster into mincemeat on Leinster’s home track. URC’s best ever couldn’t even make the final against a team that had made a final only once in 24 years of SR. I’d happily admit that NH rugby is getting stronger, and not just because its imported SR teams. But in the end the test will come in the confrontation, if it ever happens, between NH best 8 clubs, the 5 NZ SR teams and the Brumbies. And none of the NZ SR teams will have Ian Foster as coach, so have nothing to fear. My only wish is that NZ had SR Aotearoa with MP to finish the season, [With NPC operating like the CC] OZ had SR AU with Drua, in a double round robin and a final, all to give them the 25-game schedule they need to build depth and coherence, as well as a proper professional/commercial presence as clubs. Dreams are free.
Brendan NH Fan
Roar Rookie
So Romania who was dealing with the effects of the fall of comunist regime which rugby was associated with so saw a massive drop in the public support and sent amateur teams to the Champion/challange cup until they could afford to pay players about the average wage at the time, but PIs couldn't even though SR had money they could give to the PIS if they wanted and fans who attended games paid so could pay players appearance fees or set it up in Auckland that has the most rugby fans in any city at could only afford to run one team. The problem the SH faced in 1996 was they wanted the top teams to be top line funded and didn't want any amateur teams that were willing to take part, Europeans took a longer view. In the early years Ireland and Scotland also just gave fees to players for their 3 games and each of the teams got far less in attendance than any PI or NPC were getting or generating income, yet have somehow managed to become professional by slowly building up the brand and given equal share of competition money. If the issues are corruption then completely agree v why PIs couldn't go professional but they didn't need to in 1996 but were not given the choice. NH had plenty problems and happily have swapped place in 1995 for what the SH had already running. How much do you think Munster generated in 1995 from their few home games.