Willie John McBride - a great man and true rugby legend

Oh and just to be pernickity: I thought a "Willie Away" was attributed to the great New Zealand prop Wilson Whineray. I never heard it in reference to McBride. Maybe there's some really old expert down there who could clear that up for us. Over to you, Sheek :silly:

The most striking size difference in Rugby, I would respectfully suggest, is that between the players of Willie John's day and today. The first international season I can remember watching as a young boy was the 1969 Five Nations Championship (as was) in which McBride was a key figure in a creditable Irish team. In fact they won their first three matches that year and then had to travel to Cardiff to take on Wales for their last game. I have in my possession the front and back cover of that Saturday's Irish Independent (March 8th 1969) which stands as a fascinating time capsule, giving an insight not just into how the world was in those days but how it was perceived. My late father, a rugby fanatic, had two divergent careers: first as a journalist with a national newspaper and then as a university academic. Accordingly he was congenitally unable to throw away any written material. Clearing out his "papers" after he died was a mammoth undertaking, not least because many of them, such as this clipping, were so interesting one couldn't help but pause and browse. The newspaper cover was a colour supplement devoted to the Big Match. Bear in mind that in 1969, colour photography in daily newspapers was a big deal, only rolled out for Very Special Occasions. The headline suggests just how special: "Ireland seek Fifth Crown" it proclaimed. No mention of a Grand Slam, which a victory would have achieved. In 1969, the ultimate achievement for any one of the four Home Nations was beating the other three in a single season. Another story on the front page was headlined "Raiders get away with £800". Even translating into today's euro currency that would still only amount to a welfare payment for an unemployed man with dependents. Armed robbers literally wouldn't get out of bed for that amount today but I digress. The supplement also provided pen pictures of all XV players with their vital statistics. Boy, these guys were SMALL!! Bear in mind this was an accomplished Irish team, having no fewer than nine men who had been or would become Lions tourists. Included among their ranks were two Lions captains, two coaches and two future team managers. Cross referencing with a more recent match program reveals that of that worthy XV only three were heavier than Conor Murray, the backup scrum half on today's Irish team. Only one, Willie John McBride, was taller. Willie John was 6ft 2.5in, according to the paper and weighed 16st 12 lbs. That's a height of 1.89m and a weight of 236lbs if you're American or 107.27kg if you're from a 21st century country. Murray is 1.88m (6ft 2in) and weighs 94kg (207lbs or 14st 11lbs) None of the other 1969 forwards were that height. The other lock, Mick Molloy, was 6ft 1.5in (1.87m) Two of the back row players were just a shade over 6ft and the third was a tiddly 5ft 9in and weighed a mere 13st 3lbs (185lbs or 84kgs)! He would struggle to get on a good school side today. Remarkably only the two second rows (McBride and Molloy) and the loose head prop (Syd Millar) were heavier than Murray. Think about it: The entire back row, the tight head prop, all the crash ball centres and galloping wingers were smaller, by every measure, than today's second choice scrum half! Now granted, Conor Murray is a big unit by the normal standards of a number 9 but could you imagine a tight head prop measuring 6ft (1.83m) and weighing a mere 203lbs (92.3kg) getting on to a championship challenging international team today? For those with a hankering for nostalgia, the nine Lions on that Irish team of 1969 were Tom Kiernan (a captain and later manager) Mike Gibson, Barry Bresnihan, Roger Young, Syd Millar (Coach and manager), Ken Kennedy, Willie John McBride (captain and manager) Noel Murphy (Coach) and Mick Hipwell.

The end of that story (as Brown told it) was that De Bruyn simply turned round and stared at Brown after he'd hit him. Bent down, picked his glass eye up and re-inserted it. It had mud and grass attached which was sticking out of the side of it, and he just stared at Brown. Gordon said it was the most intimidating thing he'd ever seen on a rugby field.

What an athlete he was. Held some rowing records later in his life I believe?

It was interesting how rugby was played or organised then in England, compared to Australia at the same stage.

I'm unnerved just picturing it . :laughing: :laughing:

That’s what a captain does bring the team together. Lead by example, include everyone. I think he was a father figure, the all said afterwards for years they would follow him to hell.

Today a vast amount of what was said and done then both on and off the field would have resulted in hearings , suspensions , bannings , press releases and not least of all Social Media frenzy feeding of the self proclaimed selfrighteous , selfindignant , so called guardians of society and its so called values . I'd like to say its nauseating but mostly its just sad ..

I believe before one of their games, when the bus pulled up and the powers of be were trying to hurry them of the bus, McBride told them to bugger off because they were just finishing singing “Flower of Scotland”.

Wasps was at Harrow

When he put the eye back In apparently he had grass sticking out of it unnerving Brown.

Ian McIlwarth was a year older than me, saw him score a great try to defeat my school, Grosvenor HS, in the School's Cup. Game was played on the old pitch down the road from where the school was then near the Braid Valley Hospital, sort of behind the the hospital. Next year we beat Ballymena at the same venue.....Bailes and Gribbon were the halves...you might know them ? We lost to Rainey in the in the semis to a" wonky" drop goal. A few years later I actually played against big Ian , a Weds. friendly, for Queen's against his Kings Scholars.

Yeah, a big guy. Peter's first paragraph - The size difference between players in rugby union is what defines it from other winter codes, a game for all types. The most striking being the height separation between the halfback and lock forward. The imposing sight of a lock standing next to their halfback makes rugby the great game it is. was right in front of me when I saw Roger and my dad shake hands. Roger's somewhere around 6ft4. Dad is 5ft10, and was the first choice fly half at Gosforth for the best part of a decade. It's great that the game can accommodate such widely differing athletes at the highest level.

The early 70s was the time when rugby was great, both to watch and to play. In those days there really was a vast difference between the size of the forwards and backs – compare Willie John McBride to Phil Bennett, for example. Sadly, that differential is no longer so significant and I feel that the game has lost something very deep with its passing. I hate to say it, and you can call me a dinosaur, but rugby was a better game at all levels in the amateur days and the stories were far funnier, as we’ve seen in this thread.

Reminds me of Owen Finegan, big guy, with a big melon.

Nice article by the way.

The First XV pitch at Ballymena Academy is the Syd Millar/ Willie John McBride pitch. Was pretty intimidating when they came to watch…. Also the school of a fair few Irish internationals including David Humphreys, James Topping and Ian McIlrath (recent IRFU president).

I think he moved around where his teaching job took him. Started at Fylde, where he grew up, moved to the north east for a teaching job, before going down south for another teaching job at Harrow school. How it was before professionalism. I think Alan Black had something to do with it too, having made the move between Gosforth and Wasps himself.

Uttley was captain of Wasps when I played for their Wanderers in 1980.