Did Eddie Jones squander, or empower England’s golden generation? What will happen for Australia?

By JD Kiwi / Roar Rookie

Yokohama, Japan. 7pm Saturday 26 October to 6pm Saturday 2 November 2019.

For almost exactly a week, England and their charismatic Australian coach Eddie Jones looked like they were about to reach the undisputed summit of the rugby world. With every chance of staying there.

As the English players sportingly consoled their black-clad foes, sprawled disconsolately on the International Stadium turf, they felt the satisfaction of perhaps the greatest victory in their country’s history. It wasn’t just an extremely rare win over the All Blacks, it was utterly comprehensive and just when it mattered most. OK, maybe not quite the most…

Eddie and his assistants had owned the coaching battle. New Zealand coach Steve Hansen, encouraged by his team’s line out dominance over England the previous year, picked a third lock, Scott Barrett, and dropped his only open side flanker, Sam Cane. Jones picked two open sides, the “torpedo twins” Sam Underhill and Tom Curry.

England dominated the gain line and breakdown, meaning that New Zealand simply couldn’t get into the game. They even had an edge in the line out which Hansen had staked everything on, securing their own feeds with a series of creative plays and using the Mr Tickle armed Maro Itoje to disrupt kiwi ball.

After such a commanding performance in the semi final by a fairly young team against the long time kings of the sport, who could possibly beat them a week later? And with their massive playing numbers, Twickenham cash cow and continued success at Under 20 level – three wins and three runner ups in the past six years – surely they could look forward to a long period of success.

It was golden generation after golden generation, with a master coach masterminding the very top of the pyramid.

Today we will look at why none of that happened, with English rugby and their talismanic coach rapidly falling from grace. We’ll evaluate Eddie’s performance as coach and try to predict how he might tackle the Wallaby job. Is he what they need these next five years?

First though, let’s tell the story of how they got there.

(Photo by Chris Hyde/Getty Images)

LANCASTER’S NEW GOLDEN GENERATION

England are one of rugby’s big five nations who expect their golden generations to compete in World Cup finals and hopefully win them. As we described in the first article of this series, for England this had happened in 1991 and twelve years later in 2003. That generation hung in there for another final appearance in 2007 but by 2011 Le Rosbifs were going crispy in their Aga, dogged by a series of ill-disciplined scandals.

The good news for England though was that their youth system was starting to fire. A new generational cycle was about to begin with a new coach.

The 2012-15 England coach Stuart Lancaster made a lot of well documented tactical errors. What fewer people talk about is that he got the big strategic call right. He prioritised youth to kickstart the new generational cycle, based on England’s highly successful Under 20 teams from 2010 to 2013.

Look at the list of names coming from the greatest ever World Under 20 final against New Zealand in 2011 – Mako Vunipola, Joe Launchbury, George Ford, Andy Farrell, Jonathan Joseph and Elliot Daly. He also capped, from the class of 2010, Jamie George, Joe Marler, George Kruis and Jonny May plus Billy Vunipola from 2012. Then in 2013 England won the Under 20 tournament, and Lancaster capped Luke Cowan-Dickie, Henry Slade, Jack Nowell and Anthony Watson.

Lancaster also had good results considering where he was in the cycle. We all remember the 2015 World Cup exit at the pool stage, but England consistently achieved 4/5 wins and second place in the Six Nations during his tenure. And he sorted out those discipline issues he inherited. He even made England likeable.

Thirteen of the 23 man 2019 World Cup final team were first capped by Bomber. (Eddie can also thank Martin Johnson for Manu Tuilagi, Dan Cole, Courtney Lawes and Ben Youngs.) Overall we can say job done Stuart Lancaster, he played the correct role for where England were in their cycle.

WHAT CAN AUSTRALIA LEARN FROM EDDIE’S TIME IN CHARGE?

England now entered the harvest season of their generational cycle. The four year World Cup mini cycle when the golden generation peaks and the big trophies need to be won.

Most teams would now move on older players who would be unlikely to make the next World Cup. Eddie however has his own ideas and for better or worse likes to do things his own way.

Jones has said that a four year cycle is too long, players would run out of steam at the end. So instead of giving early experience to the emerging golden generation he kept on or brought back older players like his captain Dylan Hartley, former captain Chris Robshaw, media celebrity James Haskell, halfback Danny Care and fullback Mike Brown. None of them were destined to survive until the World Cup.

(Photo by Daniel Pockett/Getty Images)

Jones and these hardened warriors brought resilience, confidence and a winning mentality to a team low on all of these. A record eighteen wins in a row including a grand slam, then another Six Nations win in 2017, all against teams who were already introducing their new crop of talent. It was men against boys, but with Maro Itoje the only new regular in the team others were denied opportunity and experience. Lions coach Warren Gatland helped though, throughout the 2017 test series starting Hartley’s deputy Jamie George and including Kyle Sinckler in the 23 ahead of Dan Cole.

The lack of a third halfback (such as 2011 Under 20 and later Wasps star Dan Robson) to learn from veterans Care and Ben Youngs was a particular Eddyism. He didn’t believe there is enough for a third halfback to do. Not even in a 53 player Wallabies squad, although he has since brought Tate McDermott into the fold.

SHORT CYCLES FOR A HIGH PRESSURE ENVIRONMENT

Perhaps Jones’ belief in a short cycle was due to the constant high pressure players and coaches were under. Youngs this year said that the main difference between Jones and successor Steve Borthwick is that now players know that they need to work at the training ground but can relax at the hotel. With the highly driven Aussie you never knew when something might be demanded of you, at all times of the day or night.

The stories about Eddie are legion. No fewer than 56 players called into camp but capless under him. Another 66 with fewer than ten appearances. The budget repeatedly blown as he burned through more assistants (17) than a circus knife thrower with the shakes.

Max Malins in tears after he was dropped because of “bad posture.” Captain Hartley’s test career ended with a terse “you’re f****d mate.” John Mitchell being ordered to work on his day off instead of watching his son play at Lord’s (Mitch put family first and supported his son, before moving to Wasps soon after.) A coach having to do England analysis work at night while working in New Zealand for the Lions by day. Jones supposedly buying another coach steak as an apology for a rant in front of the rest of the staff… except when it was opened there was only sausages with a note “You’re not ready for steak. You’re a sausage. Up your game.”

(Photo by David Rogers/Getty Images)

On the other hand many players testify that Eddie improved them and was a top coach. And perhaps Aussies are better able to cope with his abrasive behaviour.

It has to be asked though, Does Australian rugby have the human and financial resources to cope with a turnover comparable to K Mart on Christmas Eve?

THREE ABRUPT CRASHES

As England’s veterans got older and younger opponents gained experience the front fell off, but in retrospect that 2018 annus horribilis was just what England needed. Older players were sacked by Eddie while youngsters like Sinckler, George, Curry and Underhill were given bigger roles. 2019 was a much more successful year. Which takes us back to that fateful week in Japan.

Before the semi final, Jones boasted that England had targeted the All Blacks clash for two years. Wibble Rugby gives an excellent analysis on how England were specifically set up to counter New Zealand… but that South Africa required a very different approach.

The confidence of everyone from Jones to the players and the media was sky high after the comprehensive victory over the long term kings and England’s bogey team. Eddie cancelled his plans to replace George Ford and Mako Vunipola with more physical players against the African muscle. Marler and Cole joked their way through the final press conference. The papers were high on hyperbole.

Twenty three raggedly arranged red roses were trampled by a herd of springboks.

Surely though all was not lost. The core of the team was young enough for another four years and there was all that talent to come from those successful Under 20 squads.

(Photo by Chris Hyde/Getty Images)

England duly took home the chocolates in the first year of the new World Cup cycle by again keeping their roster intact while everyone else rebuilt. However it was easy to see that France had stolen the march on them by clearing the decks to hasten the development of the next generation. The young France team beat experienced England in the 2020 Six Nations and even after sending their best thirty players home they took them to extra time in the Autumn Nations Cup final.

France’s prioritisation of its golden generation was already paying dividends and we all know what’s happened since. Meanwhile, England delayed its renewal and went backwards.

In his first World Cup cycle Eddie started with two years of victories followed by one year of losses. This time the salad days were restricted to 2020 and Eddie never came back from his final crash.

Astonishingly, despite all the Under 20 success, it’s questionable whether a single player debuting after 2017 has since established themselves in the team by playing consistently at a top test level. And even young world class stars from the 2019 tournament like Itoje and Curry have gone backwards.

One feature after 2019 was Eddie’s theory that possession rugby is dead, with his seemingly preprogrammed players often kicking when the overlap was on (echoed recently by Len Ikitau in Pretoria.) Eddie’s fly half George Ford infamously claimed that the ball was “a ticking time bomb” but nobody told the “half baked” 2023 Springboks, who played winning ball in hand rugby despite sending the bomb squad ahead to Auckland.

EVALUATING EDDIE’S ENGLISH EXCURSION

So was Eddie’s tenure a success, failure or somewhere in between?

Thinking first of the 2016-19 World Cup cycle, it surely can’t be considered truly successful because a big team like England has a royal opportunity to win the top prize at the peak of their generational cycle. We also have to consider the mess Jones made of preparing for the final. Conversely it’s hard to call a runner’s up medal a failure. So a par score, behind the previous golden generation in 2003/07 but level with the one before that in 1991.

On the other hand, the less said about the current World Cup cycle the better. Not that all of the blame should be laid at the head coach’s door.

(Photo by Daniel Pockett/Getty Images)

IT’S NOT ALL EDDIE’S FAULT

The problems with the Under 20s to adults stage of England’s development pathways are well documented. A lot of England’s best young players simply aren’t getting high level games, despite a lack of relegation which should encourage risk taking.

Some aspects of their structure are mind boggling. In a sport with no transfer fees for the adults developed by a club, there ARE transfer fees if you want to sign kids developed by a school in another club’s catchment. Let that sink in for a moment. Imagine how many promising players have been denied opportunities as a result.

Then consider the 50% reduction in subsidies by the Rugby Football Union to the second tier Championship. Pre COVID, so no excuse.

How about the RFU scrapping so many grassroots posts in 2018 while Eddie was overspending massively at the top of the pyramid, for example by buying out John Mitchell’s South African contract? Then renewing Eddie’s bumper contract in 2019.

Or their sacking of every single community coach and rugby development officer in 2020. Let that one sink in too.

Now compare all this to France’s newfound emphasis on local player development described in my previous article. And Ireland’s prioritisation of a centrally planned development system, resulting in unprecedented success which only looks like growing. It’s no coincidence either that those nations have taken the place of England in dominating Under 20s rugby.

(Photo by Jason McCawley/Getty Images)

IS EDDIE THE RIGHT CHOICE?

As for Eddie, is he the coach that Australia needs right now? We know that he eschews even the idea of a four year cycle, preferring shorter, high intensity bursts before the team runs out of steam. Hardly the leader to take the Irish philosophy of transformative long term rebuilding from the bottom up. Or even the medium term golden generational view, prioritising the players in and around, say, the successful 2019 Under 20s.

So how can Australia make best use of Jones? With the Wallabies having to peak every two years during his tenure for either a World Cup or Lions series, maybe he is the right person to get maximum success from each short term opportunity. A series of smash and grabs.

Perhaps his ability to target one opponent and beat them will win the Bledisloe and Lions series and result in successful World Cups. Combined with his bullish communication style this could enthuse the populace, leading to more fans and aspiring young players.

But what happens if his big talk begins to look hollow due to failure on the pitch? He hasn’t exactly inherited a group of experienced superstars. And what if, in his short termism, he fails to develop players well enough to compete in the next cycle? We’ve already seen how his England fell flat, largely for that very reason.

OVER TO YOU

Is hiring Eddie a huge, high stakes gamble? Or is he the best available leader to bring back the glory days? Let us know what you think.


The Crowd Says:

AUTHOR

2023-07-27T21:10:15+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


One of the things I really like about Leinster though is that unlike Munster they don't spend big on test stars Their foreigners tend to be younger players with potential like Lowe and JGP. Or older players with their test days behind them like Fardy and Thorn. They aren't hampered by a salary cap, but they don't abuse the privilege by splashing out on big name signings like Liam Williams and Daly.

2023-07-26T14:26:11+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


They do that too. But are more select in who they pick. Each year the provinces are able to produce more players with even Connacht getting more into the underage Ireland squads at u18 and u20. But they will still bring in the biggest players they can afford such as RG and Kitts. If Ulster could afford BB they would look to bring him over. Sarries problem was the players they mainly ran into difficulty with were academy products who they needed but could afford. Leinster because they get massive crowds over a season they can afford to have test players sitting on the bench, Sarries couldn't without cooking books.

AUTHOR

2023-07-26T11:34:56+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


I really like how Ireland run things. They just let Leinster get on with it and be excellent. Of course they aren't buying big foreign stars like Sarries have.

2023-07-26T11:00:08+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


When you have a team like Bristol were about 6 players were taking half the wages it was always going to be a mess. While Sarries were wrong to breach the cap the problem was it was the only way that their players could compete in European competitions. Of the quarter finalist in both the Champions and Challenge Cup there has been a decline of English teams and now with the 3 big SA teams involved, (as well as more French teams wanting to win the Cups) the English has declined in both and players are not getting the knockout rugby of years gone by. For the 16 teams each year it broke down as follows: 2023 T14=5, Prem=3, URC=8 (first year of SA sides), 2022 T14=6, Prem=6, URC=4, 2021 T14=6, Prem=7, URC=3, 2020 (covid) T14=6 Prem=5, URC=5, 2019 T14=5 Prem=8 URC=3, 2018 T14=5, Prem=3, URC=8. What you will see is that the URC apart from 2018 has been low until this season just gone but the Prem has been on a decline since 2019. Th big drop off has been in the Challenge Cup where the mid league teams go (Like the Reds and Tahs of SRP and the fact that they got no team this year into the Challenge Cup has been a big worry. With an open draw the English teams may be even in more trouble next year. This means in 2019 EJ had the best players in the best league, when he left he had players from the worse league in Europe and had lost test players to France. France have stayed consistent while the URC has improved which has feed into Scotland, Italy and Ireland. Wales have been rubbish which is why 3 of their 4 teams were in the bottom 4.

AUTHOR

2023-07-26T08:39:38+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Good to see you Brendan! And good that you brought up something new. The Premiership is just so badly run, for example with the top players payed more than in the richer french league because of the marquee rules, leaving less for everyone else. I vehemently disagree with how Sarries weaponise money and then rorted the cap, but it's sad they can't keep the players they developed because they are a centre of excellence.

2023-07-25T22:34:50+00:00

Brendan NH Fan

Roar Rookie


Bit late to the party, good writeup as always. Biggest issue for England was the demise to English Club rugby at the top level. Excluding the Covid anomaly that saw Exeter win England have struggled to get clubs to be competitive in the later stages and for most of his rein it was only Sarries flying the flag. Their relegation and year in the championship took the core of the England team out of the picture. These players had been mixing it with French and Irish teams but once the Covid season was over the big battles were the French and Irish in Champions Cup. With the PRL trying to make the prem A league more important than the championship more prem teams kept players in house rather than giving them a year in the Championship. France and the URC now take the better players so overall the clubs have got worse and so has the test side.

AUTHOR

2023-07-25T11:55:14+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


I'll give him credit for leaving Japan in a better state than John Kirwin but that's a low bar :laughing: I think he burns people out and doubt that Australia have the human and financial resources to cope with the churn in personnel.

2023-07-25T08:06:09+00:00

jcmasher

Roar Rookie


Eddie reminds me a lot of Cheika in that his ability to motivate players seems to be higher than his ability to coach and build a team. I’m wary of a guy who always leaves teams in a worse condition than when he arrived. It seems like his good times are built off the people before him and when he brings in his own selections to fit his game plan things start going south. TBH he seems all talk to me

AUTHOR

2023-07-24T11:30:10+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Yes and something must have improved judging by recent U20 results. Although nothing like 30-40 years ago so there’s lots of room for improvement. Of course that’s not something a head coach can control, but yes RA needs to prioritise it.

2023-07-24T09:03:56+00:00

Train Without A Station

Roar Guru


I’d say that continuing that trend of the younger generation being good crops should be the priority. If you have a production line of good young players coming through, the rest will take care of itself.

AUTHOR

2023-07-24T07:27:27+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Good post TWAS. If this younger generation is the strongest for a while, their development at international level should be the priority. I remember France playing the very inexperienced Aldritt, Dupont and Ntmack in 2019 for instance, which has greatly benefitted France. I don’t think that’s Eddie’s way though.

2023-07-24T01:11:06+00:00

Train Without A Station

Roar Guru


I, of course, loved it when NZ U20 was winning their WCs but it doesnt seem to have a massive effect on the top results but the reality is England, with all the resources they have, should be doing better than they have been I think it's pretty clear it has. We just have to consider that the impact isn't immediate, because these players don't filter through to the top level immediately. NZ won the JWC every year from inception in 2008, to 2011 and were runners up in 2012. Won again in 2015 and 2017 but haven't featured in the top 4 since 2018. They were also 1st, 1st, 3rd and 3rd in the last 4 U21 championships and 1st or 2nd in every U19 championship. So NZ were clearly consistently the top junior nation in the period 2002 to 2012. And potentially to 2017. At the same time they were consistently the top ranked senior nation. At senior level you finished 2017 the top ranked nation, 2018 the top ranked nation, went into the 2019 RWC ranked 2nd by a miniscule amount. Finished 2020 ranked 3rd, 2021 ranked 2nd, 2022 ranked 3rd and currently sit 3rd. As the players from those less successful JWC's filter through, the All Blacks just haven't been as strong. Which is why Australia needs to be patient. We were 2nd in 2019 and in the next JWC we were 5th but may have been as good as 3rd (since our only loss was to 2nd). We appear to be doing better than 2010-2018. But the point is we won't see the benefit of that in the Wallabies for another of years. For the All Blacks it was 3 years after your last JWC win that you dropped from being far and away the top team and really only seeing that consistently materialise in results from 2020. We need 5 years of good U20 results to be able to see that filter through to Wallaby level.

AUTHOR

2023-07-23T21:07:40+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


It was certainly an eye opener researching some of those stories!

AUTHOR

2023-07-23T20:59:50+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


So did South Africa then they won the next world cup :laughing:

2023-07-23T13:35:10+00:00

Guess

Roar Rookie


But they lost to Italy :shocked:

2023-07-23T13:02:29+00:00

Guess

Roar Rookie


Interesting article JD. Very insightful. Jones reminds me of Cheika only worse. He's not so much a good coach but a 'good' motivator. However his methods for motivation seem to be toxic and while they can bring success short term it backfires in long run. He's like employer with high stuff turnover.. I still hope he will leave after WC(along with another future faker McLennan) cause no matter how well they do at WC he isn't long term solution

AUTHOR

2023-07-23T08:47:21+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


In cockney rhyming slang Hamish doesn't have a Scooby Doo :laughing:

AUTHOR

2023-07-23T08:34:05+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


Definitely I agree with you that structure is the most important thing. That raises or lowers the ceiling of potential performance. But it's also true that it's easier for a team to reach that potential if players are used to playing with each other and used to playing test rugby. And you also find that one generation of players will overall be better or worse than the next.

AUTHOR

2023-07-23T08:26:39+00:00

JD Kiwi

Roar Rookie


It's certainly not how I would have gone about it!

2023-07-23T08:13:19+00:00

MO

Roar Rookie


Yeah he can have a crack and he’s not short on confidence/ego. Not so good for the Wallabies unless Eddie was prepared to continue with a form of Rennies work.

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