Three dropped catches and a half chance went begging for Tim Paine but it didn’t stop him trying to get the edge psychologically against Ravi Ashwin. India’s spinner had a rather blunt comeback which didn’t go down well.
Fact is though Matt we should have won that series In england but for paines calls at headingly and but for smith would have lost it . Paine had seven easy tests two against sri lanka on home soil , three dead certs against pakistan on home soil batting first and two against nz who had decimated bowling without boult and ferguson . Smith for me had a poorer team as captain as in particular cummins was only back from injury in 2017 and was amazing in England alongside hazelwood
Geoff I think ironically we would have definitely won if paine held on to the straight forward catch of pant early on his innings it would have given as much more time at the rest of them as from memory he was out there for another few hours
Because there are no options and if he's going to do it in the future he needs some exposure. If you look at the team, there's not a lot to choose from right now
I don't think we were winning at the SCG Pierro - wouldn't have mattered who was captain - the pitch was very benign, the Indian batsmen really dug in and the bowlers looked like they'd run out of ideas
Paine had australia’s strongest squad in uk in 10 plus years for me . At lords if not for smith with bat and cummins with ball we lose the series ,for me paine was a liability captaining there Geoff , granted he may have been a good man manager but smith and cummins manage themselves. Smith pleaded with paine not to take that headingly drs down leg at headingly and paine took it and series drawn instead of won , therre are critical moments and smith made right call there and 3 1 straight away if he captained and a series would have been won . If little doubt under smith captaincy we could have won scg as he’s more agreessive
But it also indicates that Smith never captained in England - which is a really difficult series to win. So we will never know whether he would have done a decent job in difficult circumstances. Ponting and Clarke never won there. Paine at least retained the Ashes there after the 4th test win. But I think most of us agree that he should never have asked England to bat in that 5th test.
Good point I like the outcome smith got there ,hidden in those stats for paine is that the result shoukd have been a 3 1 win if not for his poor captaincy tactics and decisions or worse we could have lost the series with his poor bowler and field tactics at lords on the fifth day morning were he kept lyon on getting spanked and labs came out to save us with bat
Smith never captained a team in England - Clarke was captain in 2015 (where we lost 2-3) and Paine in 2019 (drew 2-2). Smith captained the team during the 4-0 flogging of England in Australia in 2017-18
I never said I was pleased with what Paine did or said just that Ive no issue with it. Quite often Australian cricketers have never been the most witty or clever with their sledges. Rather than humour they try to intimidate.
I honestly can't remember Smith's captaincy being all that brilliant. He had a 53% win record (18 wins out of 34 matches) while Paine has won 50% (11 out of 22 ) - not a lot between them. Plus as you've said Paine had to rebuild the team after South Africa without their two best batsmen in Smith and Warner.
Smith had easy wins at home against NZ , the West Indies, England and Pakistan, got flogged by Sri Lanka 3-0 away, lost to South Africa at home 2-1 and away 3-1 during the sandpapergate fiasco and lost to India 2-1 away. These figures don't scream out to me that we need to return to Smith.
On balance without Warner and Smith for 12 months, and including tests away in SA, UAE, England plus two home series against India, I’d say Paine’s test assignments as captain have been harder than average
Well Smith went on the pitch and scuffed out the batsman’s marked guard yesterday- not captain material? Apart from that I honestly believe Smith is too self absorbed and idiosyncratic to effectively captain. Of course his winning record as captain is better than Paine’s. Paine inherited a broken team and didn’t have the benefit of Smith and Warner for his first bunch of tests.
Hopefully we can also agree to move on from smiths.negkigenfe after he did 12 months as well and pick the best captain on merit , Steve has a superior win rate and paine had five soft games last summer and some howlers as we know in ashes and arguably cost us at Sydney alongside poor selection so there's a case to say on merit he shouldnt be captain . When players screw up it can be forgiven if they get a fine and or do the time . I'm always after the win for australia that is all
maverick
Roar Rookie
Cummins is a very experienced and smart cricketer now. I am sure he will lead the side well.
Pierro
Roar Rookie
Fact is though Matt we should have won that series In england but for paines calls at headingly and but for smith would have lost it . Paine had seven easy tests two against sri lanka on home soil , three dead certs against pakistan on home soil batting first and two against nz who had decimated bowling without boult and ferguson . Smith for me had a poorer team as captain as in particular cummins was only back from injury in 2017 and was amazing in England alongside hazelwood
Pierro
Roar Rookie
Geoff I think ironically we would have definitely won if paine held on to the straight forward catch of pant early on his innings it would have given as much more time at the rest of them as from memory he was out there for another few hours
matth
Roar Guru
Because there are no options and if he's going to do it in the future he needs some exposure. If you look at the team, there's not a lot to choose from right now
maverick
Roar Rookie
Then why is he the vice captain?
Geoff from Bruce Stadium
Roar Rookie
I don't think we were winning at the SCG Pierro - wouldn't have mattered who was captain - the pitch was very benign, the Indian batsmen really dug in and the bowlers looked like they'd run out of ideas
matth
Roar Guru
Who has never captained a senior cricket team.
Pierro
Roar Rookie
Paine had australia’s strongest squad in uk in 10 plus years for me . At lords if not for smith with bat and cummins with ball we lose the series ,for me paine was a liability captaining there Geoff , granted he may have been a good man manager but smith and cummins manage themselves. Smith pleaded with paine not to take that headingly drs down leg at headingly and paine took it and series drawn instead of won , therre are critical moments and smith made right call there and 3 1 straight away if he captained and a series would have been won . If little doubt under smith captaincy we could have won scg as he’s more agreessive
Geoff from Bruce Stadium
Roar Rookie
But it also indicates that Smith never captained in England - which is a really difficult series to win. So we will never know whether he would have done a decent job in difficult circumstances. Ponting and Clarke never won there. Paine at least retained the Ashes there after the 4th test win. But I think most of us agree that he should never have asked England to bat in that 5th test.
Pierro
Roar Rookie
Good point I like the outcome smith got there ,hidden in those stats for paine is that the result shoukd have been a 3 1 win if not for his poor captaincy tactics and decisions or worse we could have lost the series with his poor bowler and field tactics at lords on the fifth day morning were he kept lyon on getting spanked and labs came out to save us with bat
Geoff from Bruce Stadium
Roar Rookie
Smith never captained a team in England - Clarke was captain in 2015 (where we lost 2-3) and Paine in 2019 (drew 2-2). Smith captained the team during the 4-0 flogging of England in Australia in 2017-18
Ozibatla
Guest
I never said I was pleased with what Paine did or said just that Ive no issue with it. Quite often Australian cricketers have never been the most witty or clever with their sledges. Rather than humour they try to intimidate.
Pierro
Roar Rookie
Australia is a better side now for sure with cummins and hazelwood on fire and smith had to take a poor side to England during his tenure
maverick
Roar Rookie
Patrick Cummins.
Kim Hughes 1980
Roar Rookie
Paine should go now
Geoff from Bruce Stadium
Roar Rookie
I honestly can't remember Smith's captaincy being all that brilliant. He had a 53% win record (18 wins out of 34 matches) while Paine has won 50% (11 out of 22 ) - not a lot between them. Plus as you've said Paine had to rebuild the team after South Africa without their two best batsmen in Smith and Warner. Smith had easy wins at home against NZ , the West Indies, England and Pakistan, got flogged by Sri Lanka 3-0 away, lost to South Africa at home 2-1 and away 3-1 during the sandpapergate fiasco and lost to India 2-1 away. These figures don't scream out to me that we need to return to Smith.
matth
Roar Guru
On balance without Warner and Smith for 12 months, and including tests away in SA, UAE, England plus two home series against India, I’d say Paine’s test assignments as captain have been harder than average
matth
Roar Guru
Well Smith went on the pitch and scuffed out the batsman’s marked guard yesterday- not captain material? Apart from that I honestly believe Smith is too self absorbed and idiosyncratic to effectively captain. Of course his winning record as captain is better than Paine’s. Paine inherited a broken team and didn’t have the benefit of Smith and Warner for his first bunch of tests.
matth
Roar Guru
So who captains?
Pierro
Roar Rookie
Hopefully we can also agree to move on from smiths.negkigenfe after he did 12 months as well and pick the best captain on merit , Steve has a superior win rate and paine had five soft games last summer and some howlers as we know in ashes and arguably cost us at Sydney alongside poor selection so there's a case to say on merit he shouldnt be captain . When players screw up it can be forgiven if they get a fine and or do the time . I'm always after the win for australia that is all