Kawasaki Frontale vs Sydney FC: ACL live scores, blog

No, but it would help if you stopped talking rubbish and learned a bit about financial regulations and Japanese law. The GSSS report is based on information that THEY CAN NOT LEGALLY POSSESS! Therefore it CANNOT POSSIBLY BE ACCURATE! Is that caps-lock-centric enough for you.

Iniesta didn't start for Vissel Kobe until June 2018. So only about half of Iniesta's annual salary would have actually been paid by Vissel Kobe in the 2018 tax year. The GSSS report includes Iniesta's full salary because it simply adds up all of the 2018 squad's annual salaries. As a result, given Iniesta's huge salary, the total salaries shown in the 2018 GSSS report will be much more than the total salaries shown in the 2018 tax return. Would it help if I said that with caps lock on?

"Japan’s tax year is the same as the calendar year (I believe) so probably only half of Iniesta’s huge annual salary would be declared for the 2018 tax year (he started for them in June 2018). On the other hand the GSSS report represents Iniesta’s full season salary for 2018 season." Iniesta's "salary for the 2018 season" would only cover the 2018 season. Yes? (or is that too logical for you to accept?) The 2018 season ended in December 2018. Iniesta's salary for 2019 has no bearing on that figure. How could it? Good greif man! When youre in a hole that's over your head. . . QUIT DIGGING!

Matsu - Has it occurred to you that the proportion of a player's salary relevant to a tax year may be quite different to the salary included in the GSS report? Japan's tax year is the same as the calendar year (I believe) so probably only half of Iniesta's huge annual salary would be declared for the 2018 tax year (he started for them in June 2018). On the other hand the GSSS report represents Iniesta's full season salary for 2018 season. Anyway, I'll send your posts to Sporting Intelligence and ask them to respond to your criticisms of their report. Let's suspend this futile discussion and wait to see what they have to say.

What you meant to say was: "I guess the evidence proves that we cant trust GSS." But hey . . . dont let something as basic as facts bother you. They havent swayed your opinion on any other topic, have they?

I guess you should take this up with GSS and the Japanese tax authorities. All the best.

Again, Im asking you simple questions: Do you mean to suggest that Frontale falsified their official financial statements? Or are you just math-illiterate and cant se the mismatch between your claims and the OFFICIAL financial data that I posted? FWIW I did read the GSS report. There is no footnote, foreword or caveat at all to indicate that their data is based on sheer guesswork. One point in particular blows every shred of credibility out of the water. Their report claims that Vissel Kobe's AVERAGE salary per player in 2018 is £1,133,597. Naturally, this has to match up with Vissel's declared financial filings to the J.League and the japan National Tax Agency, or it cannot be considered credible. Vissel Kobe reported a total personnel cost for that year of 3.5 billion yen. This WAS the highest figure in the J.League, but only by about 10% over Reds, and 25-50% over other large clubs. An average salary of £1,133,597 per player adds up to roughly £38 million for the entire squad (players only). That corresponds to 5.6 billion yen -- almost twice the figure Kobe filed with Japan tax authorities, and we still have not paid the coaches, management, front office staff, trainers, secretaries, janitors, stadium guards, etc. So again, please clarify your position: - Are you claiming that teams lie to the National Tax Agency and the J.League? - And if not, how do YOU explain the disparity between these numbers that your GSS report uses, and the OFFICIAL and AUDITED data filed by the J.League clubs themselves?

Read the GSS report Matsu.

Morita has 2 caps. Taniguchi has 3, all as subs and all in post-WC friendlies. NOT what one would describe as NT players, but rather “outlying prospects”. Saito and Kurumaya are exactly the players who make my point! They were only introduced when it became clear that Frontale needed more quality than what they had on the pitch. So where are your “Eight Japan NT players” ? Six players with at least one NT cap as a sub (two of them not in the starting lineup) does not equal “Eight Japan NT players”

Two points and then Ill drop it. It seems pointless to argue with people who refuse to accept the REALITY that all “data” on peoples’ incomes in Japan is invented. – First, as I said . . . it is a crime, in Japan, to reveal a person’s salary. This HAS been tested in court. So if you see “guesses” about salaries of Japanese players (ie J.League. The data on overseas players is usually reputable), you can assume that they are either 1) invented by people who want to pretend to knowledge they dont have, or 2) extrapolations based on income tax data, which means the figures indicate not only the player’s salary from their J.League employer, but also all income from commercial and sponsorship deals, bonuses and so on . . . and therefore, the figures could be 2-3 times the actual salary for their football income. Again, IT IS A FELONY to reveal this information. Therefore, if the information was actually accurate (or even close to accurate), either the players or the team would take globalsportssalaries to court, and someone would be doing prison time. Second, your point about the salary cap in Australia is actually WEAKENED if you start comparing it to Japan, because Japan has what is essentially the same thing as a salary cap (teams MUST make a profit. If they fail to do so for three years running, the J.League intervenes and forcibly sells off the players until the revenues exceed expenses). I agree with your underlying point, FWIW, so quit barking up a bare tree by claiming Frontale spends more on players than the official figures they submitted to the J.League clearly shows they do not. The 40 million figure you offered as “average” for the whole team roughly corresponds to the salary that insiders (ie current and ex -J.Leaguers) consider an “elite” salary. According to everything I have ever heard on the matter, J.League teams usually have 4-6 players who make more than 50 million, and rarely more than one or two who make over 100 million. It is true that there has been a rise in “top-end earners” since the DAZN deal went through, but given that the base pay for rookies is a mere 2.5 million yen, your average is looking mighty dubious

RF Maybe not ditch the cap straight away. If it was only doubled – less risky – then the clubs playing ACL would at least have a chance of competing with the spending power of clubs like Kawasaki Frontale. The $4 million prize money for the winner means there is a big payback for getting your spending right. What I keep saying is the gap to the best ACL teams is not huge. A step up in quality across the whole squad would see teams like Sydney and Victory genuinely competitive in the ACL. Remember that last season Sydney drew 1-1 with Kashima Antlers, the eventual winners, without Ninkovic, Bobo, O’Neill or Grant playing. Sydney were also still in with a chance of getting out of their group until the last round. Although the ACL does not draw a big viewing audience, failed campaigns add to the negative perceptions and criticism of the A- League. A couple of sucessful ACL campaigns (not necessarily winning) would have big positive impact on the A-League’s reputation (and crowds/ratings). Even if the A-League could only keep more Aussies in the A-League it would be a real boost. It’s easy to forget how many good quality Australians are currently playing overseas. At least some of them could be enticed back to the A-League if competitive salaries were on offer. And with more to spend, the level of foreign player we can attract would also go up. At the moment, A-League squads have hollow middles. By that I mean there are typically a couple of good quality foreigners, a few promising Aussie youngsters, and in between a bunch of Aussies who can’t attract overseas interest, or, who went overseas and disappeared. There are some quality Aussies who choose to play here, but not nearly as many as there should be. So I see the current salary cap as a real problem but it might be safer to up it to a competitive level with other Asian spending, rather than just dumping it.

Punter - This is not one of your better replies. You care to highlight my mentioning Arok's Socceroos ,my god man that was from 1983 to 1990,more than 30 years ago and you of all people know that in 30 years our game has changed quite dramatically,we have seen "possession football", "playing out from the back", etc etc all introduced and used by the likes of Real,Bayern, Barcelona and PSG to name a few, and then by an absolute plethora of coaches worldwide who,having seen these tactics used, decided to "copy", with squads of players no where near the standard of player being used at these "super" clubs. Punter ,it is no random occurrence that we see players like Broich,Nincovic,Bobo,Del Pierre,Zwaanswijk, Mierzejewski,Biujs,and Ono come here and make an obvious input into out local game and this situation has been going on since the start of the HAL. Last night we watched a team of young,and not so young Japanese move themselves and the ball all around the field in a manner that made one of Australia's top teams look like a bunch of "learners". Forget the score,when assessing how a country,team, players, are picking up the latest trends in football tactics then I feel it is time for us to sit up and take notice. I happen to know you regularly watch English football and if you don't see some resemblance in the way the Japs played last night with the way top English clubs are playing then you are not the judge I have always regarded you to be. Cheers jb.

I didn't watch the Sydney match, but Victory's performance was terrific apart from about 5 moments of lost concentration & sloppiness that led to 2 goals & 3 big saves from Lawrence Thomas. I thought Hiroshima were extremely poor. I don't know if that's their reserve team, or the normal XI, but all they did was sit back in their half after going ahead. If Aussie sides do this it's called "parking the bus" and being negative because we can't play football. Victory dominated possession, but couldn't penetrate the Hiroshima defence. Victory equalised with 18 minutes to play and could've lined 10 players outside the box to hold onto the point. But, I'm glad we tried to go for the winner away from home. Didn't work out, but I'd rather lose trying to win the match, even if it means we open ourselves up for a loss. That's what Ange tried to instill in Aussies. Take risks. Go for it. If it doesn't work, don't be scared. Just work harder to be better at taking risks & going for it.

R, I know ditching the cap comes with risks, but the A League is dying and this really is one of the very few options on the table. When I say "dying", I don't overstate the case. The metrics suggest a tv deal at half of the current deal, at most. Fox may well walk away. This would not surprise me at all. In fact, I think it is the most likely scenario. Lifting the cap would transform the competition in a way nothing else can - adding teams takes too long and has already been misjudged. FFA are a continuing nightmare of mismanagement.

Agree Punter, and my memories begin with 74 too. What we have lost now is the edge in speed and fitness. Most Asian sides are quicker than our players now, and the top sides are as fit or fitter. I've been alarmed by the constant stream of accounts from young players moving overseas and talking about how much harder they train in Europe, Japan and Korea. More sessions per day, higher intensity per session. I can't see why this should be the case.

Depends on the exchange rate of course but the original yen total was 945,000,000 yen (around $AU 12,000,000). That's about half your conversion figure so you might have miskeyed something... Given these are the top salaries the total for the remainder of the squad would be quite a deal less, leaving a lot of the 2.1 billion yen for the rest of the club to share around. My figures are roughly in line with the figures on pg 34 (item 270) of this report: http://globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS%202018.pdf This shows the average salary of the Kawasaki Frontale J.League first team squad in 2018 as $US 359,530 (40,111,323.98 yen at current exchange rates, and $AU 510,000). If they used a 30 man squad then that the total salary bill would probably be close to the figures I supplied (accepting that I can only estimate what the remainder of the squad was earning).

FWIW, the one bit of information that you CAN find online, which is accurate and has a bearing on salaries, is the team data for personnel expenses. https://www.jleague.jp/docs/aboutj/club-h29kaiji.pdf As you can see for yourself, this document shows Frontale’s TOTAL personnel costs for 2017 (which includes not only players, but coaches, staff, secretaries, trainers, and even the guy who cleans out the toilets) as 2.1 billion yen. The player salaries that you posted in your comment add up to roughly 1.8 billion yen. For just ten players. I guess youre claiming that all the other players, the coaches, the executives, the team head office personnel and so on . . . . all work for free??? Question: Are you claiming that Frontale falsifies its financial submissions? Or do you know of some other method that they are using to pay their players these exorbitant salaries?

Where did you get those numbers? Salary information in Japan is a strictly protected personal information. It is a criminal offense to publish a person’s salary information in public. Therefore, BY DEFINITION, any salary info you see in print or online is not accurate (if it WERE accurate, the person who published it would be in jail). People speculate all the time. Having spoken personally to some players, I have yet to meet anyone who has NOT referred to the “speculated salary” figures you can find online as “wildly overstated”. Your underlying point makes sense, and I generally agree. But dont toss away any credibility you might have by posting numbers that have no connection to reality AT ALL!

Just to emphasise the point here are the top dozen salaries paid by Kawasaki Frontale in 2018, roughly converted from Yen to $AU: Kengo NAKAMURA - $1,569,288 Akihiro IENAGA - $1,307,740 Yu KOBAYASHI - $1,307,740 JUNG Sung Ryong - $1,046,192 oshito OKUBO - $915,418 Manabu SAITO - $915,418 Ryota OSHIMA - $915,418 Carlos EDUARDO Bendini Giusti - $915,418 Elson Ferreira de Souza (ELSINHO) - $784,644 Hiroyuki ABE - $784,644 ShogoTANIGUCHI - $784,644 Shintaro KURUMAYA - $653,870 EDUARDO NETO - $457,709

Of course there is a quality gap, but the gap is nowhere near as big some of these comments suggest. Read my earlier comment again - I am saying there is a structural problem with A-League squads caused by the low level of the salary cap. That means any time a first teamer drops out the replacements are liabilities. They don't have the luxury of building squads with a wide range of high salary players.