NRL problems can be solved

source ABC; Hurley arrested over alleged assault Young Bomber in hot water ABC - September 25, 2009, 10:11 am An Essendon footballer is being questioned about an alleged attack on a taxi driver in the Melbourne suburb of Richmond. Police say 19-year-old Hurley got into a dispute with the man early this morning. The club is investigating the incident and will make a further comment later today.

would you have any idea of the actual NZ ratings andyroo, that would give more realistic NRL ratings.

I can not believe i forgot about the Warriors!! And to think the Titans beat a bid from Wellington for a 2nd NZ NRL team.

The Sky Deal is separate though so it's very easy to measure the worth of the NRL in NZ :)

with all due respect gentleman, your probably all right in one way or another. I have noticed that NZ hasn't been taken into consideration for NRL ratings. When I have been in Auckland, I have noticed live NRL games on the box but I have no idea how they rate( I imagine pretty good in the North island) and since NZ population is about 4 million, it could be counted as another Australian capital city regarding TV ratings. Ihave afew mates who live in Christchurch who watch the league if rugby is not on TV. I think the NZ TV audiences would give the NRL TV ratings a descent boost.

"No one disputes that AFL is number one in Crowds and TV" There are NRL fans in 2009 who really do think the NRL is biggest on TV overall. They usually point to Pay TV which is actually only about 20-25% of the TV market and then extrapolate that out to free to air significance. "Not including regionals but having WA and Adelaide is not a “fair go” in my book." Well the rating numbers are for Perth and Adelaide which are part of the 5 captial city market, it is not the AFL's fault that the NRL has only 3 cities of the 5. If you think back to Superleague there were 5 captial city teams and NRL fans rejected the comp , ironic to then plead 'not fair'. Those decisions to not support your game's expansion had longer term consequences. News Ltd owns Melb, part owns Bris - as I said above to Paul J I'm not convinced News Ltd has been bad for NRL, be careful what you wish for. Redb

Paul J, The construct of the national TV market is based on the 5 capital cities, the networks then syndicate (on sell) to the regionals. "i wonder how many viewer watch the ad’s through the entire 4 quarters?" I've already made this point above, the average is used, the numbers are average over the whole 3 hours. So if 500,000 watch Coll and Ess on Friday night in Melbourne that was the 'average' for the whole 3 hours, the peak was probably 700,000. The TV execs pay for the averages numbers not the peak (therefore already factored in). eg: Round 14 St Kidla v Geelong, ave 600,000 in Melbourne, peak in the last quarter was 900,000. The NRL will get more if they can demonstrate over the 5 years the TV ratings have grown in key markets and overall. Plus they will look at potential. With he success of regional teams like GC Titans and NQ Cowboys, the QLD regional (WIN) might be expected by Ch 9 to pay more next time thus they are willing to pay more to the NRL. Redb

As someone "from the land of uprights" I still want a site that shows the real reach of the games. Not including regionals but having WA and Adelaide is not a "fair go" in my book. No one disputes that AFL is number one in Crowds and TV, and not many think that anything other than League, AFL and Cricket is worth big money to TV companies. But those figures aren't the full story and sif people want to debate the differential rather than the winner it's important. Anyway even if you don't like AFL at least there pushing boundaries and putting up a bench mark.

Paul J there is absolutely zero reason for pessimism. The NRL numbers are fantastic, overall they are lower than the AFL, but so what - they are still fantastic numbers, and pretty much every other sport in the land would want those numbers. As I just wrote, there are two comps in the game - and then there is daylight to everything else - that's what these numbers show.

"or neutral fans in non traditional areas this is a siginificant factor IMO, ie: casual sports fans probably will only tune in for the last half or the last quarter." That is how I normally watch AFL, so fair point then.

AndyRoo but this is just one of about three or four significant elements - did you read that short essay attached to that ratings site? http://www.talkingfooty.com/tv_ratings_2009.php This summarises and it is all very clear cut - there's not even any grey about it. There's no real debate to be had here, and even if League fans might feel embittered about the super league war (as they rightly should), the point remains that the NRL, is firmly ensconced in 2nd spot - and it's absolute daylight to the next sporting comp. The current day reality (according to these figures), is that there are only two comps that are in the game in terms of the numbers that matter.

AndyRoo, The 3 hours is one factor whether its worth 50% is not my argument, I said even if the ratings were equal, then the AFL goes for 3 hours and with more commercial break opportunities, that the AFL would get more. The 3 hours actually reduces the 'average' TV ratings number used, which means if you compressed the game back to 2 hours the average ratings would likely be much higher for AFL than they are now. For neutral fans in non traditional areas this is a siginificant factor IMO, ie: casual sports fans probably will only tune in for the last half or the last quarter. Redb

Redb I don't see how McDonalds or Toyota ad's are worth more to be shown to TV viewers in Melbourne or Sydney than in Bendigo or Wagga? Yes AFL games are longer that NRL and i agree that is an advantage but i wonder how many viewer watch the ad's through the entire 4 quarters? Same as not everyone who watches the start of a movie at 8.30pm will be watching the end of it at 11.30pm. My wife sometimes watches the first game of NRL of Friday night with me but she usually goes to bed ten minutes into the second one. Obviously this is only relevant to night games and it's probably very difficult to know how many viewers are watching the last quarter. Nrl fans have discussed at length the pros and cons of News involvement in the game for years and most feel the cons well and truly out way the pros. I think News is the main factor why the NRL is behind the AFL in terms of expansion plans and TV rights and just the general running of the game. I'm glad you think it's more like 5-10 years and maybe i'm being a bit pessimistic but i still think it's closer to 15.

But that strikes me as a bit of a myth about the benefit of AFL going for an extra hour. It's obviously a plus but I doubt it's a 50% advantage. Once you have captured peoples eyeballs for 2 hours there is diminishing returns on getting them for 3 hours.

Paul J, I've made this point a few times and it keeps slipping through the comprehension of NRL posters - it doesnt matter what you deem important (regionals for NSW and QLD where obviously NRL has the advantage with teams) it matters what the TV execs are willing to pay for and that is the 5 capital city market. It is also significant that even if the AFL and NRL had equal ratings across the 5 capital city market, the AFL would get more becuase (a) the telecast is for 3 hours against the NRL's 2 hours and (b) more commercial breaks in AFL. I'm glad to see you agree the NRL is behind the AFL I would put it about 5-10 years not 15. Gold Coast Titans and NQ Cowboys have been unqualified successes they've done a brilliant job at community engagement and finally given the NRL new clubs that are sustainable post several Superleague failures. I'm not convinced News Ltd is as bad for NRL as many beleive there are hidden advantages. Redb

Has anyone seen stats on the ratings that include the whole country and not just capital cities? You probably won't find it on AFL sites. If it's even close to the capital city only ratings i'll eat humble pie - grudgingly. At least league fans would know how much work is to be done. I just think that if you added the 5 million Australians that are not included in the capital city stats the difference would have to be at least reasonably significant. It's like taking Melbourne figures out of the capital city stats. The super League war definitely was a pause button on the game. Until we get an independent commission & get News ownership out of the way League is not yet even travelling at normal speed again. If the NRL was 5 years behind the AFL in 1996 we're closer to 15 years behind by now.

Dogs It's definitely a question of the amount of product - and FTA definitely delivers the AFL more dollars than Fox - but that may not be the case forever - the media industry is changing rapidly. But I have to say, you are dismissing the overall ratings a little bit to easily - there is a big gap in the ratings of the five capital cities combined - I'm not really sure what you mean when you say: "isn't that much different" - it is a lot different - that's the point!!

Link you know better than I - it tore the absolute heart out of the game - lifelong buddies were at each others throats - there's no doubt about it that it was like a massive pause button. I would never be stupid enough to say that League is mortally wounded or in decline - it wouldn't even cross my mind - the ability for the game to bounce back has been shown over, and over and over - a bit like that ad that used that song: I get knocked down, I get up again, etc. etc. I'm also reminded of that quote from someone who suggested that Howard ripped the Libs to absolute shreds for years before he got his way and took the leadership when he was the last man standing. But going back to the super wars, I imagine a week doesn't go by where you don't run into a Bears supporter who remains absolutely embittered by the whole thing, even if they've managed to come back to the game in some shape or form.

Pip, for RL in general i'd say its akin to a giant pause button being pressed on the game from 1995 for 10+ years. In '94 RL was riding high and bullish. I'd say it took the Titans coming in in '07 that RL got its mojo back, but there's still a way to go.

So what you are really saying looking at the figures on that site, iis that the NRL which only has 3 matches on free to air, could get just as many viewers as the AFL does if we got more product on free to air TV. So really Foxtel should be paying us more to keep the balance the way it is currently, otherwise we should offer other free to air stations the opportunity to broadcast further matches free to air. Because the peak viewing of any AFL match (given that the site only shows capital cities), isn't that much different to NRL. I know you believe regionals don't count, and I could show you how much advertising revenue regionals generate in NSW/QLD, but you would dismiss them in your usual fashion. AFL isn't doing that much better TV wise, it just has more product on TV, something the NRL needs to do, but can't until News Ltd conflict of interest in negotiating TV rights is resolved.