Broncos celebrate at fulltime from left Alex Glenn, Lagi Setu and Joel Clinton: NRL Rugby League Playoffs Round 2, Brisbane Broncos v St George Illawarra Dragons at Suncorp Stadium, Saturday September 19th 2009.
Queensland grassroots rugby league is stronger than ever; some of the greatest league players of all time have hailed from the Sunshine State; and Queensland won their fifth straight Origin series last year. Yet there are still just three Queensland teams in the NRL.
If any NRL expansion is to occur in 2013, Queensland should be where it happens.
There’s been talk about the prospect of a second Brisbane club entering the NRL in 2013.
Wayne Bennett, Shane Webcke and other Brisbane league heroes have dismissed the idea of a rival Brisbane club, fearing that a second team would threaten the Broncos’ fan base.
But with the Brisbane area alone consisting of two million people and counting, many would have reason to believe that a new club would actually rejuvenate and strengthen rugby league in the area, rather than hurt existing NRL and QRL clubs.
Yes, there have been failed efforts in the past.
The South Queensland Crushers attempt in the early 90s suffered due to unfortunate (Super League war) and premature timing. But the region’s population and economy has exploded in the last twenty years and the NRL is thriving.
Brisbane is a big city (for Australia).
It has partnerships in education, health and big business with most of northern Australia, and it’s the gateway to Asia and the Pacific. Furthermore, a constant flow of immigrants coming from the latter is boosting the already flourishing pool of Pacific Islander talent making their way into the NRL.
Queenslanders love their NRL. They’re hungry for it.
I know people who are/were devoted supporters of the Melbourne Storm. Not because they have any connection to Melbourne, but simply because their squad contains so many Queensland superstars.
Despite fostering the same inter-city rivalry as Sydney, those league fans living in Brisbane, the third largest city in Australia, have been limited to supporting just one team.
And since their inclusion in 1988, the Broncos have breezed through each year without a local derby.
But how tantalising is the notion of a Brisbane city rugby league rivalry not unlike the Roosters vs Souths, Sharks vs Dragons and Eels vs Panthers hit-outs that we all know so well?
This can happen. And 2013 is the time.
But maybe it could go one step further. With the overwhelming strength of rugby league in the state, surely the NRL could not only accommodate a second Brisbane side, but another Queensland team as well?
Several south-east Queensland teams including Ipswich, Toowoomba, Logan, Sunshine Coast, as well as central Queensland are also leading candidates to enter the NRL in 2013.
Central Queensland seems to be leading the race at the moment. The area the new team would represent covers Rockhampton, Mackay, Gladstone, Hervey Bay, Emerald and the surrounding areas, also known as Capricornia.
With a population of 200,000, an established leagues club, a 20,000 seat stadium promised by the Queensland government, economic growth ensuring corporate big bucks a plenty, almost 20,000 signatures on an NRL petition (expecting 30,000), and the undeniable dominance of rugby league in the region, central Queensland puts forward a strong case for their inclusion in the NRL.
For the NRL to become completely national it does need to spread into other states, but it’s no use putting a team in Adelaide or Perth, just for the sake of making it a ‘national’ competition, as suggested in the David Benuik article published on The Roar.
Any new club, whether through expansion or relocation, should have a strong junior contingent and rugby league fan base. You can’t just move a professional team in and expect it to work.
Expansion should happen where the game is popular and where it has been developing and growing steadily over the years, and shows the promise of continuing to do so.
Queensland can demonstrate this, Adelaide and Perth cannot.
I’m not saying that options in Adelaide and Perth shouldn’t be explored. But for now, I feel that Queensland should be the first frontier when it comes to expansion.
Forget relocation.
Merging teams is not the answer in spreading rugby league throughout the country. I still remember the outrage from Balmain and Wests supporters, who were forced into accepting the still horribly un-catchy team name of ‘Wests Tigers’. Consecutive plurals? What were they thinking!
If the merging path is pursued, the NRL will become as confusing as tracking the history of an NFL team. They started here, moved there, changed their name to this – confusing.
It also kills the identity and sense of belonging that is so important to any Australian following a sporting club.
New NRL franchises will be seriously looked at over the next few months. Central coast NSW, Papua New Guinea and Wellington NZ are others with an NRL bid, but Queensland teams need to be on top of that list of consideration.
In this state, rugby league is king. There’s even a street named after Israel Folau.
No, I’m serious.
Three teams are not enough.
Queensland can finally demonstrate the population and economic growth required to support the inclusion of new NRL teams in the state, and this can’t be ignored.
Queensland's game is rugby league
Guest
We need another team or two in south-east Queensland. Either bring in a Logan-Ipswich (or Ipswich-Logan) team or put a team in Ipswich and another in Logan. These two cities are crying out for a team of their own. Another team in Brisbane would be great too. The local derbies created by adding these teams into the competition will add so much to the game. You'd have 45,000 to 50,000 at Suncorp whenever the Broncos play one of the other south-east QLD teams. The other teams would probably movce their local derby home match against the Broncos to Suncorp because it's likely to sell out. The Bears' bid cannot compete with that. A local derby against Manly would be lucky to draw 20,000 fans. The most important issue is the bridge between junior rugby league and first-grade. Adding 2 or 3 teams into the south-east Queensland will allow south-east Queensland's juniors to play first-grade for a team that they can identify with while living close to their family. It's not right for Queensland's juniors to be shipped off to Sydney because there aren't enough spots available for them in their home state. Adding the CC Bears will not fix this issue.
Brooke
Guest
I dont know why people are considering the natural growth of the competition as expansion. Below is a proposal that will cater to what pretty much everyone wants, as well as growing the game internationally. A true PLAN for expansion. Expansion Leave the current competition as is, and create a 16 team second division. This new tier of competition could be made up of teams from Darwin, Adelaide, Perth, Brisbane 2nd Team, Ipswich Jets (preferably with a merger with Newtown for historical reasons), 3rd New Qld Team, Gosford Bears, Christchurch (NZ), 3rd NZ Team, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, New Caledonia, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, and a PNG team. At the end of each season. the bottom two 1st division clubs would be relegated to the 2nd Division, and the top two 2nd Division clubs would be promoted. Clubs should be forced to have their home ground located in an area which is reflective of their support base. This would see the Rabbitohs moved back to the SFS, and West Tigers moved back to ANZ or one of the inner west grounds. St George Illawarra should also be moved to Woolongong to dilute the Sydney City region. Each teams could play up to 4 regular season home games at different stadiums, which could see St George playing at Kograh, Ipswich (merged with Newtown) Jets playing in Sydney, Island based teams playing on different islands, etc... The Competition Leaving each division at 16 teams would create a fairer competition, enabling each team to play every other team in their division both home and away each season. The regular season would then be played over 30 rounds/weeks. Toyota Cup should continue as an U20 comp, with Reserves being reintroduced to give senior players a longer professional life, allow younger players a better opportunity to develop, and increase the depth of playing talent at each club. The regular season could include numerous weeks (maybe 8), which would be set aside for representative football. This would allow State of Origin and international matches to be played with the best available teams, without impacting on club, or regular season competitions. State of Orign could be expanded to see QLD v NSW in Australia, Nth v Sth Islands in NZ, and Tonga v Samoa. Given the difference in time zones this could see three 'Origin' matches broadcast live and consecutively These weeks could also be used to hold a sudden death Cup competition similar to FA Cup in English Premier League (maybe the NRL Cup) for all 32 NRL clubs. This competition could give 1st grade, older, and injured players more of an opportunity to rest/recover during the season, with teams possibly made up of a mixture of players from all three playing groups (U20, Reserves, 1st grade). With all rep players away, and many 1st grade players rested, this could be a very exciting and unpredictable competition. All Stars matches could also be played over these 'rep' weeks. If the Englsih Super League could also align their season this could see maatches such as NRL v Supr League, Aboriginal v Maori, PNG v Pacific The finals series should be simplified to see 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 & 4v5 in sudden death matches, through to the grand final. In its current format the finals series is too long, and boring, with some teams playing each other more than once (it is pretty stupid if a team is knocked out by a team they had already beaten in the finals series). In this format the entire season and all associated competitions would be played over 42 weeks. Players would also benefit with those not playing representative or finals series footy, having up to 12 of the 42 weeks off playing. Squad Sizes, Minimum Wages, and Salary Cap Exemptions Each club could have squad limits and minimum player wages as follows; U20 - 25 players with minimum $50 000ea pa Reserves - 30 players with minimum $75 000ea pa 1st Grade - 25 players with minimum $100 000ea pa This would give each club a minimum player wage bill of $6 million per season. Clubs should also be allowed salary cap exemptions as follows; Club Developed Junior - Additional $100 000 to cap when signed with 1st grade or Reserve squad Senior Player (5+ years with club) - Additional $100 000pa + 20% if also Club Junior Senior Player (10+ years with club) - additional $250 000pa + 20% if also Club Junior This would reward clubs for developing and retaining local talent, and allow for long serving players to extend their playing life, and enable them to play out their careers with the one club if they so choose. Salary Cap NRL 1st Division should be the best clubs, players, coaches, and competition in the world, and players should be paid accordingly. The salary cap should be a set limit above the clubs minimum wage bill, and cover above minimum wage payments for all three playing groups. This could be at around $2-5 million per season for 2nd Division, and $5-10 million per season for first division. 3rd party payments should be banned as they are nothing more than false or pretend employment used to exceed the salary cap. However, players should be allowed to independently obtain as much private sponsorship as they can get, in line with all other sports. David Gallop has said that an expansion would put financial pressure on existing clubs, however with a promotion and relegation system, clubs struggling financially would inevitably find themselves relegated to the 'cheaper' 2nd division, while the financially successful ones should end up in 1st Division. Financing New Teams I don't think this should be as hard as everyone makes out. Firstly, all of the new team locations already have established Rugby League facilities (or similar). These may not be on par with the SFS, ANZ, Suncorp, AAMI Park, etc... but given NRL crowds are comparatively small, this should not matter too much, as these venues could be built up in line with the growth of the associated Club. Most of the Australian teams mentioned as possible new clubs, already claim to have at least some financial backing. This should be especially easy in Darwin and Perth given the mining and natural gas boom. The Northern Territory Govt also has a history of providing large amounts of ongoing financial support for sports. This is especially true when linked in with tourism benefits. The PNG govenrmnt has also stated that they would provide some financial suport to an NRL team in their country, and I imagine it would not be too difficult to get the othr Pacific Island nations to put up at least some of the money required to fund their new clubs. There is also the possibility of lobbying the government to redirect foreign aid money for the Pacific Island nations and PNG, into assisting in developing these clubs and their facilities. Australia is already concerned about the increasing influence of China in the region, and being proactively involved in projects which would increase employment and opportunities for individuals, as well as the overall economies of these nations, would help Australia to maintain a dominant position in the Pacific Region. There would be a couple of new clubs which would need the full or partial support of the NRL to become financially independent, however this could easily be achieved by setting aside a percentage of Broadcasting Rights revenue specifically for this purpose. Clubs should be able to administer all other costs at least similar to what they spend on player wages, as these costs are minimal (training, travel, accom etc...). All clubs should be getting revenue from ticket sales, merchandise, sponsorship, membership, and Broadcasting rights. The only determining factor on a clubs success should therefore be how well they can ensure their income matches or exceeds expenditure. Broadcasting Rights NRL should be able to massively increase the revenue from TV rights deals under this proposed expanded competition, as it would not only be a fully national competition (excluding Tasmania) but bigger than any other professional Australian sport, and also having weekly matches in a total of 9 countries. This would not only increase the potential number of viewers, but also the number of broadcasters who could bid on the rights for specific regions. A side by side analysis of what this proposal offers, over what the latest AFL broadcasting deal is worth demonstrates quite clearly how commercially superior the NRL would be. AFL NRL 22 Round Regular Season (198 matches) 30 Round Regular Season 1st Div. (240 matches) NAB Cup 30 Round Regular Season 2nd Division (240 matches) Finals Series 1st Division Finals Series 2nd Division Finals Series State of Origin - QLD v NSW - NZ Nth Isl v Sth Isl - Tonga v Samoa All Stars - Aboriginal All Stars v Maori All Stars - Kumul All Stars v Pacific/Polynesian All Stars - NRL All Stars v Super League All Stars Value $1.253 billion over 5 years Value - $???? Given that the AFL has no international profile, it should be expected that any NRL deal with FOX should include an international component broadcasting matches in the UK, France, New Zealand, and the USA. I would also imagine that there would be a reasonably high demand for 2nd Division matches, as Australian and New Zealand both have large Pacific Islander populations, with Australia also having a reasonable number of resident Papuan expats. Monitoring the Salary Cap and Match Fixing All players, coaches, managers, referees, etc... would have their personal financial records audited annually by the ATO or another independent body. There should be no concern over privacy, as the information would not be made public, and if people aren't doing the wrong thing they have nothing to worry about. This would enable the league to ensure people involved aren't receiving payments or benefits that would breach the salary cap, or could be considered payment for fixing matches or spot betting. Referees All NRL referees should be full time professionals, ensuring they are able to focus on their duties, and continually improve on their skills. A Match Official Review Committee should also be established, to review all matches and rate each referees performance, taking into account correct calls, incorrect calls, offences not picked up, and the impact of the call on the result and momentum of the game. These results could be computed into a percentage score for each referee, which could be released publicly. Referees could then be assigned to matches based on their performance the previous week and/or for the duration of the season, with the best performing refs being given the most important matches. A medical official should be appointed for each match, who would assess players who have been injured or concussed during a game, and make the final decission on wether or not the player is allowed to return to the field. If this is left up to club officials, they would most often choose the clubs interests above those of the individual players. National and State Selection All players would be required to nominate which country they recognise themselves as being from, and therefore which nation they are elligible to represent, when first signing a professional contract. The same would apply for State of Origin, where players would nominate which state they recognise themselves as best represented by, instead of trialling for both, and seening where they first get picked. Thus elliminating what is currently a farcical selection process. Player Rights and Welfare Clubs should be allowed an 18th man on the bench for each game, who can be used to replace a player who is seriously injured or concussed. This player would not be allowed to play without the prior authorisation of an NRL appointed mediacal officer. Clubs should be encouraged to employ chaperones to supervise players when out in public, especially when alcohol is involved. This is not just to ensure they dont do the wrong thing, but also that they are not provoked or attacked by others. The NRL should employ a Player Welfare Manager, to assist individuals deal with persoanl issues such as mental health and substance abuse. This person should liase with the clubs and individual players to ensure any players with personal and/or public issues is receiving the ongoing support needed by their club and the NRL. This will reduce then number of public incidents, and will also give the NRL a defencive position when repsonding to the media about such incidents, as they would have an active and ongoing plan of management for each individual. The Future This proposed expansion would be used as a stepping stone in the international development of the game. Obviously it would see another 7 nations become competative internationally (and stop loosing players to Australia and New Zealand). It would also enable future independent competitions to be established, which could see an Australian only 1st and second division, a Pacific League (which could include Hawaii), a PNG League, and would see a higer amount and level of talent develped, which would benefit the English Super League, and the little known professional US rugby league competition. I believe that this proposed expansion provides the best possible future for all stakeholders, and will make Rugby League the biggest and most dominant sport in Australia and the Pacific, and would love to hear your thoughts on it. I have already sent this propsal to the NRL, giving them the opportunity to announce their 'consideration' of such a proposal simply to generate media interest and exposure, however they have replied saying that "there are many logistical and financial challenges that would make it very difficult to become a reality". This I feel is really just stating the obvious, and would be the case no matter what they choose to do, however I feel that this proposal warrants some public debate and discussion on how it could be made to happen. As such, I am now forwarding this on to the media, and will also be sending it on to clubs and other stakeholders to generate some serious debate on the topic, as if nothing else, it is a much more exciting prospect than adding a couple more teams on Australias east coast.
BIG BEN
Guest
Where have you come up with 18-20000 crowds? The current average is 16000, about half of what it should be if the sport had a decent following.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
A bid team that has done a lot of research,organising sponsorships,has a mgt team in place,has WA govt support,the fact there is a rl base of fans and a junior comp playing in the national u18s suggests ,more than just the eastern states want it. If you ask whether the majority of Perth citizens want it ,the answer would be no.The same in Melbourne.So what,there are more than a decent number that do,as per the Synovate Survey conducted in that city if there were no bid team,there would be no chance of Perth getting past first base.
The Bush
Guest
Ipswich 500,000? More like 170,000... Brisbane's 2,000,000 includes the satellite cities of Ipswich (170,000), Logan (300,000), Redland Bay (150,000) and Moreton Shire (Caboolture, Redclffe et al, 350,000). The actual Brisbane City local government area is only 1,000,000. Is North Sydney's population really 700,000+? What does this include?
Guido
Guest
I joined the CC Bears in November at a function, and was asked to renew my membership early January without being warned. I thought that was bit rough. There would be quite a few in that boat, so I'm not sure what membership numbers are at the moment.
Sportfreak
Guest
All this talk of the WA Reds.. Can anyone from WA comment on the viabilty of a team in Perth? There is a lot of talk from the eastern states about plonking a team in Perth, but does Perth want it?
Parkridge Panther
Guest
I am under the belief, and I may be wrong, that the Qld government has already signed a lawful document committing the government to the construction of a stadium if Central Qld is given the go ahead. Again I state this my understanding.
Parkridge Panther
Guest
Willy. Dear oh dear oh dear. The most ill-informed post I have ever read and there have been some.
Jeff
Guest
hey mate, are ya Scared of the Storm that's rising again in Victoria with more than a point to make!!! --
Parkridge Panther
Guest
Jay I tend to agree. Perth is probably the favourite due to the abilty to relay live into the Eastern Market and will increase the TV revenue. Central Qld has it advantages aswell but does not have a ground, at present. A second Brissi side has, apperantly, $10 million, in sponsor ship. Big bikkies in any ones language. A second NZ team offers what Perth can deliver. I would not count them out. Central Coast is too close to an already over crowded market. It has its place but it will need culling of a Sydney club, IMO. PNG is a long term prospect 2018?? As is Dawin, Sunshine Coast and Adelaide. My pick is Perth and a second Brissie side or a NZ side. I would not be surpised if the NRL go for 4 teams in any expansion.
Redb
Roar Guru
Relying on newbies from other codes?? Lets do the math here, Folau is 1 player out of an eventual list of 40.
beowulf
Guest
Talk about distorting figures to suit your argument! We're talking about bids representing a region, not a state. Central Coast Bears catchment with no team - 1.1 million Ipswich catchment with no team - 500,000 Brisbane catchment with 1 team - 2 million CQLD catchment with no team - 200,000 (I include Gladestone and towns w.in 3 hrs drive to be generous) Perth catchment with no team - 1.65 million Talking about crowds, the Bears bid will estimate away crowds to the Sydney away teams plus Newcastle (and Canberra and Brisbane not far behind) of 5-10,000 - possibly the most in the league. Home crowds for all franchises bidding would be roughly the same - 18-20,000, with Perth perhaps a bit down on that. Even though populations stats support the Bears, its not the only consideration - merchandising, TV ratings appeal, business model, economic risks, readiness, and sustainability are all factors. I think the Bears would top most of those factors also compared with the other bids.
beowulf
Guest
And the Central Coast will stay the Bears - $10million reasons say so!
turbodewd
Guest
Queensland pop. 4.5 million - 3 NRL teams. 1.5 million ppl per team NSW/ACT pop. 7.6 million - 11 teams. 690,000 ppl per team WA 2.3 million people - NO team. Thats a huge untapped TV market!!! In light of the above there is no question Qld deserves a team over NSW, especially since Qld teams have the best avg crowds. However I would go a bit further and say that Perth deserves to be the only spot for 2013 expansion. And if we could encourage a Syd team to Adelaide that would be perfect. More than 18 teams would be a disaster by spreading TV revenue too thinly thus leaving our players constantly leaving to other sports.
lopati
Guest
Agree,bookies seem to know a little too much - but can use that info to manipulate their odds of not paying out. Whatever heppens I hope it's done for the right reasons; not taking a dig at any bids but following the stunts of Cricket Australia one can never completely write off stupidity either. For instance some people suggest a 2nd NZ team, but I don't really see a huge support base for it (yes a small and dedicated one), but for sure with the Warriors also riding on the line sponsorship is a big problem. In short while a 2nd NZ team would be nice, it doesn't look particularly smart.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
WCR Pardon Monsieur! You didn't. I used the point for clarification and emphasis purposes.In fact I never discussed ru playing numbers before or after the Reds/Force. The point was simply to spell out the rl playing numbers were Ok prior to the Reds(who were there before the Force and therefore have as much right to be there as the Force).Then the rl junior numbers jumped when the Reds arrived in town.They came from somewhere new kids,expats,ex ru,whatever.When the Reds were forced to shut down,the numbers dropped dramatically.I have read threads where a couple of guys stated they wnet over to playing ru.Now they could be BS....ing,I doubt it. Anycase the numbers are back to levels higher than the Reds days. You are correct anyone can make a claim,but the numbers(as the WARL and NRL say are back to reds days)>i suggest they came from somewhere.It is just as reasonable to say some went over,as to say none did,using the he says ,he said argument. In fact in Sydney,players who miss out in the under 20s end up sometimes in ru club teams such as the Sthn Suburbs side.There are precedents including that of Cris andersons son doing just that. That is ironic, you have been in Perth for x amount of time and returned to sydney,yet make claims such as there is not the interest ,etc .You make these claims when a bid team ,that is in situ at the coal face,has done surveys,spoken to govt depts,sponsors,media and fans,and has a board made up of local respectable businessmen.If you are unable to back up your claims with those of the Bid team and the survey by Synovate,you are just as guilty of making assumptions. All we keep getting is the Force have a following there are huge numbers of sth Africans and Poms,yet the east Coasters get lost conveniently in the equation. i suggest much of the debate in this thread is based on assumptions and views.You better tar and feather the lot. Especially the guy who made the claim the Reds averaged 6,500 an absolute porky.Oh he is a ru man ,QED he is spot on.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Cronulla will stay put.$300m development reasons say so.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
the Link Don't you dare write something,that makes complete sense,it is unAustralian.
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Crosscoder Where did I say the Force came into existence prior to the Reds? I asked how do you explain the participation growth of junior Rugby before the Force came into being?. Not sure how you read that but I thought the questions were pretty clear. A claim is baseless unless you can provide facts to back them up. Assumption cannot be passed off as fact, which is what you did with your statement.