Vince Rugari’s article on the new Australian Premier League seemed to touch a few nerves when it came to promotion/relegation debate.
Some are keen to see some of the old NSL clubs join the A-League, others claim that these team do not have the required support or facilities to have this happen.
One thing is for certain though: the AFC demands that all of its professional leagues have a promotion and relegation system in place. So, sometime over the next 10 to 20 years, the excuse that our fledgling league is still finding its feet will no longer fly amongst the AFC delegates – we need to start planning now.
Let’s face it, if any A-League team were to be relegated from the competition at the end of this season, it would certainly face financial ruin. With the Fury and Gold Coast debacles still fresh in everyone’s memory, another club going belly up is exactly what Australian football does not need at the moment.
So how does the APL find an even balance between providing a healthy competition to feed the A-League whilst still being financially responsible?
First of all, let’s rule out a nationwide second-tier. The A-League is having enough difficulties establishing itself as a professional league. A competition existing underneath this – trying to operate on even thinner budgets, with potentially zero TV dollars coming in – is simply not going to happen.
Second, any system that is set in place needs to be weighted heavily in favour of any A-League team fighting against relegation. Any A-League club should be able to beat a state-league club over two legs, especially when they have the benefit of playing at home second.
The idea is to have relegation only a real possibility for a very poor team – in the first seven seasons of the A-League only the woeful Gold Coast from last year realistically could have been beaten by a state-league club.
Here’s how I see it working: currently there are nine member federations of the FFA, and ideally each should have an equal claim to providing a challenger to play-off for a spot in the A-League.
So in the weeks leading up to the A-League Finals series there is a competition that pools these teams against each other. Where it would be held could be subject to a tender process. Rather than selling games to Bathurst or Launceston in a bid to bring football to the regional centres, let them host these playoffs.
This “Challenger Cup” has a duel role; exposing the second-tier teams to a national audience, and allowing an extra few games to be added to the TV schedule (hello impending TV rights deal!). Eventually, through the FFA Cup, state teams can be seeded into groups (similar to how the UEFA club coefficients work). But for now let’s assume it would look something like this –
Challenger Cup:
To be played over the final two weeks of the A-League regular Season – March 23-31.
Pool A:
Capital Football Winner
FFSA Winner
Football NSW Winner
Pool B:
Football NT Winner
Football Federation Victoria Winner
Football West Winner
Pool C:
Football Federation Tasmania Winner
Football Federation Queensland Winner
Northern NSW Football Winner
Final Pool:
Finals Week 1 – April 05-07
Pool A Winner
Pool B Winner
Pool C Winner
Relegation Playoff 1:
Finals Week 2 – April 12-14
Challenger Cup Winner vs. HAL 10th Place
Relegation Playoff 2:
Finals Week 3 – April 20-21
HAL 10th Place vs. Challenger Cup Winner
Rules:
In each pool game, teams would only play each other once.
Each pool game needs a result – If scores are even at the end of the game, extra time and then penalties will be used to separate the teams.
In the case of a three way tie at the end of the pool games, goals scored will be used to separate the teams.
If the teams can still not be separated, the highest seed will go through.
Admittedly, there are some flaws in this system. What happens if a club succeed in getting promotion but cannot fund its existence in the A-League? What if it’s facilities are not up to A-League standard?
All worthwhile questions. But one thing is clear – we need to find a resolution to the second-tier issue. So let me know your thoughts? Am I on the right track?
GaryS
Guest
MG Rangers were not relegated, they were liquidated. The new club was allowed into the league as a replacement. As with all new clubs entering the Scottish league structure this was done at the lowest tier. Anything else would damage the Scottish game further and really has nothing to do with promotion and relagation being discussed here. However if your point refers the fact that big clubs should not be relegated as they bring in the cash or they cant survive outside the top league then it's flawed. The latter has some merit which is why the timing of relegation is important. The former however has no credit ilty whatsoever ever. The game in Scotland will survive without Rsngers in the top league. The game is bigger than any one club. In fact the Scottish 3rd division will get a cash boost and help the game most where it's needed, the 'supporting acts' .
GaryS
Guest
Bludger you are talking crap and clearly have no idea about football in Europe. There will never not be relegation and promotion. It allows all ambitious clubs grow whilst others fall. It help breath new life into each top league. Plus before the rich owners there were still only a handful of top clubs whilst lower league clubs like Forest were able to aspire and attain European glory. Yes the financial models are different but promotion and relegation is still essential for a vibrante evolving league.
grazorblade
Guest
promotion and relegation seems kinda incompatable with a salary cap. Perhaps any promoted team should get a salary cap exption in the first year they are promoted
Marty
Guest
Dripping irony aside... are you seriously denying how entrenched league and afl et al are in our sporting culture?? I'm not saying that a great and successful football league can't happen, I would love it to be huge!! - I'm just being realistic about how long it could take due to unique challenges posed by multiple, popular, long standing and successful sporting competitions. I dunno what becky wilson is referring to by the way - maybe you are more in touch with the average punter..? All I know is that the vast majority of guys I play football with are far more likely to go to a cricket / league / afl match before attending an Aleague match.. and these are guys who play the damn sport!
thinker
Guest
wisey_9 Wolves, olympic, marconi, sydney united, apia, blacktown and melita have been doing that for years People always forget that both canberra fc and belconnen united have regularly on and off played in the NSWPL to use travel costs as an excues is rediculous
wisey_9
Roar Guru
There is a few problems with your suggestion here. First of all, the FFA don't have much say in how the state federations operate... they largely govern themselves. So any suggestion of migration between competitions is a long shot at best. Second, there is the problem of financial constraints that travel brings. A NSWPL team cannot realistically expect to regularly travel to Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne and Hobart as you have suggested - it costs too much money.
thinker
Guest
Dear FFA please alllow clubs to freely migrate to other state comps and let the APL evolve from there starting with Canberra FC, Brisbane Strikers, Sth Melbourne , Melbourne Knights, Sth Hobart and Adelaide City to NSWPL
Jim
Guest
Most Australians don't believe that - "other football codes and sports are widely seen as more exciting and culturally fitting" - SO speak ONLY for yourself OK, Becky Wilson?
Jim
Guest
Your ideas are very similar to ones that I have and so I am very happy to say that I think you are on the right track. But will the FFA listen to you?
chris p
Guest
Hey Gooner "teams of the future" cant exist in salary capped leagues Gold coast would have been gutted of players long before your 10 yr dead line, Hell heart have barely made it 2 years without all of their talented youngster going
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
wisey_9 You've put a bit of thought into this & it's definitely got merit. I've never thought of promotion/relegation in this way.
philk
Guest
I don't see why we shouldn't have a 10 team B League running in tandem with and parallel to the current 10 team A League without promotion/relegation until such time as it is financially prudent to do so. We could easily add this second tier to the TV deal thus offsetting the costs of running the two leagues. We already have a number of clubs in state league competitions who are quite professionally run such as South Melbourne, Sydney Olympic,Brisbane Strikers (to name but a few) and could make the step up to a professional league ( I now fully expect a barrage of criticism from the anti old NSL brigade!! )
oly09
Guest
The promotion-relegation debates seems to pop up every month or so, but we are in no position to bring it in yet or even within the next 20 years. As people have already pointed out, what is Victory are relegated and a team that averages 1000 per game gets their place? What would the TV broadcaster have to say about that? The best idea would be to do what they seem to be planning, which is having an APL with different state conferences to replace the state leagues. Then the top teams could play-off against each other at the end of each season for an APL winner. Then the FFA would see which clubs were serious about taking the next step and would have options for future growth in the A-League.
Cappuccino
Roar Guru
I've always been pretty strongly against a direct second tier in the A-League in the near future, but if one were to happen, this would be a great way to do it. Two things though: 1. I would play the play-off relegation matches after the Finals Series has finished 2. What happens to the A-League club that gets relegated (if one does get relegated at all)? Which League will they join, how will they maintain supporters? There are still flaws in any relegation system in Australia. Last year Melbourne Victory were pretty close to rock bottom of the ladder... Imagine if the largest club in Australia was relegated to the VPL!
Griffo
Roar Guru
While AFC documentation says one thing on promo-relegation, the AFC itself sees P-R as a mark of a healthy league and rates countries accordingly. Australia needs to do its own thing, with P-R out of the equation imo. The FFA might pay lip service to 'looking at' P-R because of AFC but there are not the number of viable clubs let alone money, infrastructure and population to support such a thing in the next couple of decades, if at all. Where I think the point of Vince's article was spot on was that there is some framework around allowing existing clubs the capability to grow beyond their amateur status and professionlise their operations. I have said before The A-League and it's clubs created a large divide between 'professional' clubs and 'amateur' clubs but there is no reason clubs cannot do all they can to take a more professional outlook to training, facilities, sponsorship and re-investment into youth and coaching development. It is a long process but any clubs like South Melbourne et al, or Broadmeadow Magic etc al that start now may just find themselves in 15 - 20 years ready to put their hands up for that final investment to attain A-League status when the call for more clubs comes. Exposing the best state-based clubs to A-League clubs is a good thing, but something that can be done under an FFA Cup type setup; all state feds have their own cups. FFA only need to allow the winners to go onto facing HAL clubs. Dangling the promo-carrot too soon isn't necessary or viable to anyone in short to medium term. As some pointed out yesterday there are far too many issues on the to-do list at FFA still that could hinder other ventures.
tonysalerno
Roar Guru
The A-league is not ready for a second-tier competition yet- there is not enough depth in the Australian ranks.
pete4
Guest
wisey_9 - I disagree. Lots of people said the same thing about the A-League. No money, 3 years max etc In the long term a fully professional 10 team A-League and 10 team B-League is achievable IMO until then the State leagues will remain the second tier
MG
Guest
Exactly, look at the SPL with the Rangers situation. They can't afford a team with such significant support to be relegated because of TV revenue, etc. What happens if Melbourne Victory get relegated? The A League would instantly suffer. And perhaps fail. Promotion Relegation is not sustainable in Australia. It is only on the agenda to keep the suits at AFC HQ happy, will never happen.
Trentus
Guest
The author lost me at the comment about the Gold Coast - he clearly doesn't know enough about the A-League for me to trust what he has to say. The Gold Coast were competitive all season and Adelaide only just finished above them - they also beat the Premiers (CCM). For a really woeful side you can't go past the New Zealand Knights' first season, when they finished with 1 win, 3 draws and -32 goal difference. NQF had a similar goal difference in their last season but 19 points. GCU ended last season with 21 points and -12 gd - nowhere near as bad. I didn't follow GCU, I'm simply pointing out what I consider an error.
Marty
Guest
I think anything like this is at least 10 years away if not a lot longer - it took germany 11 years before an official 2nd division was created and it didn't have at least 3 other major professional sporting distractions vying for attention, never mind the fact that all their major cities are veritable next door neighbours compared to ours. The J-league, which had strikingly similar problems to our competition (rapid expansion, financial mismanagement) managed to get to a 3rd tier within 10 years, but they also don't have a myriad of other football codes and sports that are widely seen as more exciting and culturally fitting, they latched onto football and had a far, far greater desire to be like the rest of the footballing world - and quickly.