The ARU developing a third tier, consisting of eight to ten teams across Australia, is long overdue. However given it’s taken this long, getting it right is critical.
There will be no second chance. If it fails, it is difficult to see another attempt within ten years, maybe never.
The ARC failed, the NSL failed, basketball failed, both football and basketball started again, because they had no top tier above them whereas rugby has the Super teams in place.
This means if this fails then rugby still has its main competition and the willingness to throw money at a twice-failed competition with limited media outcomes will be very difficult to find.
Lower tier competitions tend to drain funds and struggle for media. The ARU new format will be no different, it will cost and struggle for media.
I fear for the competition if new teams are created as many are saying based on the A-League model.
The obvious difference is the A-League is tier one. The A-League is the main media driver for football, and today the main revenue driver.
The new rugby competition will not drive revenue.
The smarter move would be to follow football’s National Premier League model.
Years in the making and years of painful negotiations, however most (aside from some Victoria clubs) are on board.
Rugby should not copy this model, simply take its best parts to suit the needs of rugby.
FFA have developed a set of standards that any team or association in Australia can adopt. If they reach FFA standards, they can apply and most likely be part of the NPL.
What this means is those clubs and regional associations with the funds, energy and willingness to adopt the standards set by FFA can join and those that don’t can still play but not in the NPL.
Rugby should consider aspects of this model.
Arguably all Shute Shield teams and all regional unions could consider if they wish to apply after considering ARU standards.
The Central Coast Union could say they wish to apply after considering the pros and cons. The advantage this provides is it provides an established fan-base, existing connections into the local communities and connections to local media.
Plus if you look at the Central Coast Union or Newcastle Union (as many others do as well), they both have underpinning junior competitions to draw players from, creating in itself a pathway to more senior teams.
It is inclusive rather than exclusive in so much as people can decide if they want to meet the standards set or not.
If they choose not too they don’t feel excluded and are more likely to support the competition or at least not be caustic about it and rubbish it to the high heaven, which is what happen to the ARC.
The problem of trying to site teams by some geographical location indicator by population underestimates the difficulty of start-up teams in a highly competitive sports market.
I am suggesting creating a model with high standards and inviting teams/ unions to apply is a better model than the ARU making the call from on high, on the, who, where and why.
Over to the experts now.
glacier
Guest
Midfielder Isn't the A-League also the third tier of Australian football with the Socceroos playing the same number of internationals as the Wallabies per year (12 to 15) and the top 30/50 Australian football players playing overseas? Methinks you have an agenda when you consistently try to tell us on the roar pages how good Australian football is going as opposed to the 'basket case of rugby'. Your references to rugby in Australia as being 'park football' as compared to the wondrous performances of the Central Coast Mariners when most of those players would be considered third division (Cantonal or Communal) players in Switzerland and be lucky to earn SF100 per match if they played there. Australia is a laughing stock in world football. Having lived and worked in five countries overseas I know Australia is recognised as being good at rugby even if people don't particularly understand the game. The same can't be said for football. My final question - what does your son who plays for Eastwood RU (or, as you say park football in the Eastwood district) think of your continual attacks on the game he plays and presumably loves?
chris
Guest
So the Shute Shield teams will become park/pub Rugby.
Magic Sponge
Guest
Timing is terrible. No rugby mates of mine are talking enthusiastic about it. Should have spent the money on the clubs and regional areas. Strong clubs = 2 world cups
Tane Mahuta
Guest
Neighbours dont have Foxtel huh.
sheek
Roar Guru
Hi Midfielder, If rugby is to adopt a national comp, I am quite comfortable it should be based on the A-League model, without exactly replicating it, but based on it. In A-League, Sydney & Melbourne each have two clubs. In my ARC/NRC, Sydney would have three clubs & Melbourne one. A-League has Adelaide & Central Coast, but no Canberra (at present) or Gold Coast. ARC/NRC would have Canberra & possibly Gold Coast or second Brisbane team & hopefully Adelaide, but initially no Central Coast. Both models have Brisbane, Perth & Newcastle. It's the concept that's important, without exactly replicating. There's simply no way, for example, the ARC/NRC could ever replicate the AFL (Melbourne-centric) or NRL (Sydney-centric). For one thing, Brisbane is much stronger in union compared to Sydney, than league compared to Sydney. I don't think both Newcastle & Central Coast are ready for an ARC/NRC, & I would give preference first to Newcastle. Probably much to Rickety Knee's disgust! I don't know who else mentioned it, but plucking stand alone clubs from Shute Shield or hospitals cup, like Sydney uni or Qld Uni, will most probably kill off these comps eventually. On the one hand, many mightn't have much sympathy for them, but on the other hand, I believe they still have a role to play. The clubs that make up SS & HC should be left intact, with the ARC/NRC teams being mostly so called 'greenfield' clubs, especially from Sydney & Brisbane.
jeznez
Roar Guru
There is such a disparity between player numbers I'm not sure any comparison beyond structure is relevant. Given the NPL is a move to ensure the best local leagues around regions and then create a national final seasons I think it is doing something different than what rugby needs. Rugby already has strong Brisbane and Sydney comps that are significantly stronger than the other regional comps. Separate but aligned to the NRC is that Super sides are getting more control of their contracted players to put them into those leagues when not in use during the Super season. To then create a NRC that allows the best players of those comps to join with the professionals is a different structure to suit where our strength is and help bridge gaps. It certainly follows your fish where the fish are analogy.
Midfielder
Guest
This thread was written before details of the new Rugby competition was released and in many ways is kinda outdated by it... Sheek has also written a thread which goes to the heart of it better... jeznez to be honest RU when it comes to park teams and competitions is light years behind football... no disrespect but the NPL is a huge step and will have over 100 teams each with their own academy and training at reasonably high FIFA standards ... it also creates pathways from the park teams to the A-League something football had been behind in compared to RL & RU... The NPL it is seen as the base to build football on in the future it is a very good nay excellent model and was five years in the development ... My tho's where if you are going to set up a third tier competition then take it from your existing base ... """ fish where the fish are """" and the real problem of establishing new teams in a sports market already over supplied... I should point out that the A-League model often used as an example of 8 new teams ... lacks a real understanding of those orginal 8 teams in the A-League .. NZ Knights, Perth, Adelaide, came from the NSL Newcastle & Brisbane came from NSL teams with new owners…. The Central Coast was the NSL club the Northern Spirit relocated from North Sydney to the CC with new owners…. only SFC & Melbourne Victory where totally new and they where new to break the ethnic clubs in those cities… Essentially 6 of the 8 original A-League clubs came from the former NSL…. My take is you cannot ignore existing fan base...
Qldfan
Roar Rookie
Johan, not everyone is intersted in NRL and/or AFL, so there is some potential there IMHO. I. for one, wouldn't go next door to watch either of them
jeznez
Roar Guru
It is the best way I see this working NOS. Means everyone automatically gets assigned a side and no one is left out. Some of the proposals that say Western Sydney split from the rest are so arbitrary I have no engagement. Make it the North, the West and the South East and although I have no natural affinity for the East and would want games shared around across the region I still identify since it has South in it.
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
I think it will the toughest thing to do Jez, not damage existing clubs. The more I think about it the more I realize that if we bring 1 or 2 shute shield clubs like Uni and not others ultimately the latter will die. One of the possible solutions would be for some of the NRC teams to be selections of a given region/territory. We have that in France in youth categories where the best from a region are selected to represent it. The blokes are selected by independent coaches from the regional 'comity'. Often you have the blokes who play for the big clubs but you also have a few guys who play for smaller clubs but have had a great season with their local team. Back here in Oz, we could have a selection of Sydney North, another of South alone or south + Easts, then West Sydney. Clubs like Warringah, Randwick, manly etc would be feeders of these selections and would remain extremely important as guys would have to perform at club level to be selected there. Dunno if it could work in Oz though but I reckon its a very PC and consensual solution.
Johan
Guest
I agree with the point you raised about Australia's highly competitive sporting market. I must admit I am not sure whether the proposed timing of the new NRC lends itself to big crowds and exposure in the media. The proposed start date as stated by pulver yesterday is late August- just as the NRL and AFL are starting their finals. The A league also starts in October. It will be a hard sell.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Mid, I just went to the FFA website to read about the NPL program. Seems to be trying to set up something similar to what rugby already has with Premier Rugby in multiple locations but then adding on a finals series between the different competitions. Maybe that is all a second or third tier can be but I am pleased that Pulver and the ARU are aiming for more. We are trying to bridge two gaps with the new NRC. Firstly the gap between club rugby and Super Rugby is too big - the NPL model while creating a set of criteria for promotion and relegation works who should be in the NPL in rugby we already have clear ideas as to who should or should not be in Shute. Adjusting the criteria for inclusion won't easily change the quality of the rugby. The easiest way to improve the standard of this next tier of rugby is to condense the completion. The second gap is the lack of local rugby accessible to fans and Non-Wallaby players post the Super Rugby season. Once the club season finishes today we get three or four Tests in Oz. The rest of our rugby is off-shore and often broadcast in the middle of the night. Many Super players do not get to compete with club players as they are spread around sides and not all of them make finals. Internationals returning from injury do not have a comp they can join to get match time, instead having to prove themselves in Wallaby camp. The NPL model doesn't address either of these two gaps. A condensed rep comp that ensures the best Non-Wallaby players from any club and Super side get to compete in a tournament that is played around the country does achieve them. The ARU is reaching for the right stretch target - it just needs to ensure the model is set up so that existing club structures are not damaged and that all get the chance to participate - a representative model is key to this.