Can we fix the Wallabies scrum?

Cheers, Rob C. I can't recall the title or author of the book lost. It wasn't the one by Ray French though. I might also recommend bill Beaumont's book...a humble pocket paperback called (from memory) Yours in Rugby. will check if you like. With all of these books there can be some hubris but Bill was called Gentlemen Bill for a reason and he did marshall respect. Although not huge he did his role well & never let teammates down (similar to a Mick Mathers, Reg Smith or Steve Williams or even that Bronco that played for the A.B's.). Re: Simmons is okay. Kepu has improved a lot over the long term but I don't think he has the consistency. I prefer props to improve over a season but get better & better throughout the game. the 2nd half should always be better then the first. I'm not a fan of the shoulder height of the second rows. Sometimes their binds also drag down and don't assist Kepu as he tries to go forward he can hardly lift his feet. Their shoulder tends to ride down on the back of the leg from the nape of the (forgive me) the inside buttock. Good tighthead wins are like a hot butter knife, always seamless as the planneing height should facilitate the front row being the platform & conduit of that transferred force.

Great article and chat. I've missed this stuff. Going to look up a few of Stacky's books, they sound like top reads.

Fantastic Stacky! Going to be a happy reading for me over the Chrissy break. Greatly appreciate it. This is a treasure of titles. fyi the Amazaon link doesnt work anymore. np, in any case, Ill find them all re stance: Kepu has a particularly wide stance. Could this also reflect that he needs a bigger push from Simmons, esp Hooper? Slipper, from memory, is a little narrower. But I guess it needs to be given his role.

Indeed, my pleasure. A topic dear to my heart. All that experience distilled on the shelf for someone to pick up, dust off & apply. The best one I had was an English one that even had the foot places of the Bajada (sick) Argie scrum. The tour books are always a good read. Most of the Aussie ones in the 80's-90's are okay but I've always enjoyed John Reason's books. There were two good ones Lions Rampant (in South Africa by Vivian Jenkins by Reason and another of the Lions tour of NZ in 1974. http://www.amazon.com/John-Reason/e/B001KMKDRMJ.M. Wallace's The All Blacks & Lions. Some memorable backline moves depicted by diagrams. I reckon they work today. People forget, but the Sth. African 71 being memorable for the famous 99 call; & the 74 NZ tour are v.good as is J.M. Wallace's The All Blacks & Lions. On the local front no-one even Poido, Eales, Ella & co outpoint Steve Finnane's tome The Game they Play in Heaven. Rugby Encyclopaedia's are good such as Keith Quinns and Jack Pollard's classic Aussie one, The Game & the Players but my fave was a $1 bargain by David Norrie called The Greatest Rugby Players although dated. Spiro recently eulogised Jackie Kyle and I note he was voted Ireland's Greatest Rugby Player over McBride, Gibson, Slattery & O'Driscoll. The Joy of Rugby is a good world view. Best oz xmas gift would be the Rise & Rise of Aust. Rugby. Best prop books are Fran Cotton, the classic Price of Wales by Graham Price (every prop should read & the best single piece of advice I've ever read); Finnane & Pilecki for local colour. Jim & Shehadie & Thornett all wrote very worthwhile reads. Although Lynah, ella, Campo, Farr jones with Fitzimmons the most surprising and lucid account was by Ian Williams. Best technical book: N.Z. Rugby Skills & Tactics. For the book's supporters, Men in Green & Gold which is S.A. Vs. Wallabies. Brother Henry and Dick Cocks are still the best on individual playing positions & their roles despite anything produced by the ARU. That tell's you something! Re: Franks...yeah but there are so many factors. The breakaway binds, the natural inclination of the prop to turn it anyway aside from angling (which even from ex-prop refs. like Wayne Erickson got wrong adjudicating (only human). Elsewhere I noted a poster said his side selected a short tighthead to negate tactics but traditionally the gate on the hit suited a taller build as there was more distance to cover but that has changed due to the crouch, touch, engage (pause is dropped) or similar protocol. We have to produce props who don't have to have a wide foot stance like the Franks bros & Richard Loe (for all his sins) was masterful at incorporating narrow stance for power but retaining stability. Happy reading.

thanks Stacky. Hes Ive got a few books too, including on the scrum. A few coaching subscriptions. Not that I have skill or time to coach. Its just reading, viewing. Which ones are your top reads? v useful thanks re Dolphin: - I noticed Franks dip couple times v WBs. Didnt go through though. - Do you see it happen often, or at all in recent times?

Hi Rob C. I can't seem to find the post mention. Perhaps it was in another thread. The upshot was that a south African was reported as opining that the problem with you Aussies is that you try and convert a good rugby player into a front rower, whereas we attempt to turn the good front rower into a better rugby player or along those lines. Re: there was a groundswell to convert Willie O. into a front rower. My point is that you must also consider the mental attitude & disposition of the player as well as physique and other assoc. attributes. You can learn a lot from watching and breaking down video as Scott Allen (very sad he is leaving), but I think coaches have forgotten books. I have an extensive rugby library which also contained international rugby mags going back to 1980 (which I donated to my old club as incl. team lists for local comp.) To my regret some books have been loaned to players I have coached never to return. I first came across the term "Dolphin" as mentioned by Phil Blakeway, a very well know English prop who broke his neck and returned to represent his country. I think most front rowers are familiar with it. As others have often said you have to know how to get out of trouble. It simply involves doing a 'dive position' motion and coming back up. it is of course illegal to dip your shoulders below your hips. The important thing is that the initiator has to have the strength to come back up. I can turn a formerly disadvantageous position into an advantage by spitting the loosehead & opposition hooker. Their second rowers might yell he's coming through! The loosehead tends to be turned both down & inward so the can't get under the tighthead's RHS upper ribcage. The feet reference was to how far apart & where the toes are pointing. Of course it all comes together with back angle, head up, and not over extending your legs so you have explosive drive.

It is time to bite the bullet regarding Wallaby scrums. That is engage the best European scrum coach, or Worldwide best scrum coach. To fix our scrums up for the World Cup and beyond teaching technique and identifying methods to train our current and new generation of pigs to be No. 1, we have the backs and we can beat the AB’s and everyone else. ARU has tried to use homegrown / Wallaby talent and have they have done very well (no names needed), but it is time to suck it up and get the best out here and start learning how best to do it and start the Academy. Maybe if ARU cannot decide, the Brumbies who are innovators should. Tony

This article ignores what actually happened to the wallabies scrum against Wales and English. They both cheated by wheeling and angling in and got away with it. Its as simple as that. When both sides competed legally there was barely any discernible difference between the two packs. James Slipper and Kepu are more than up to the job and the bench arent half bad either. We need to be a little less naive maybe... and maybe do a little cheating of our own. The cheating that went on by England was so blatant I have no idea how it went unnoticed. The good news is that hopefully it will be highlight and reviewed and World Rugby will do something about it. Come RWC time the only advantage England will have over us is their lineout and maybe kicking game. they have very little else. If I was an England fan I would be worried.

I am glad TOPO is back. I wrote to him privately but it is great he "speaketh" himself. I don't understand the Aussie angst about the scrum. I mostly played for a club not known for scrummaging strength but by its ball handling skills. Still, we were worked out very hard about the scrum. As TOPO said, if you don't have the foundation strong, who cares about the rest? We were usually smaller and lighter than other teams and would still compete furiously and rarely pushed back. Our coaches made the scrum work as ONE unit, not as 8 players that got together occasionally during the game. Until you figure this out and go to basics, plus developing the brain power, you will continue to struggle. After 2 or 3 scrums in every game, the forwards would chat about what was going on and what adjustment were necessary to fix things. It is not difficult, it is called communication and implementation.

Stacky this is a really good and interesting post, thanks. A marked this for a careful reading. Few questions if poss: - you mentioned some coaches did something what the sage advice of the south African counsels against. can you clarify. What it feet? - what was suggested of Willie O? - whats doing a dolphin?

Muscular stamina (not necessarily your max squat; but how much you can squat 20 reps). Esp under new rules

Hi Topo! Three questions if I may: - How much time does a raw scrummaging lock like Skelton take to get up to speed if he put his mind to it - months or years? - And when he does turn things around, could he be quite damaging considering his mass? - Last one: how do you rate Tom Lavinini's current capability and future prospects? btw my full name is in my profile

I think there are some props like Sio (his old man was v.good too for Norths). I another tag someone mentioned a young Aussie Schoolboy rep coming through with a Kiwi sounding surname. I would like to mention a few other aspects: Concentration. This relates to thinking and attitude. A coach once said to me that you can't win every scrum. I objected. My role as a tight-head was to disrupt their ball on their put-in & protect my sides' feed. The ref. above has done well in noting topos fine contribution. Of course the secret is to look at the feet. The Australian's don't change their feet stance for either defensive or offensive scrums. What I'm getting at is that forwards can be improved as it is largely technical as opposed to the natural talent a back must usually exude to excel at the highest level. I have seen many coaches do exactly what the sage advice of the south African counsels against. At both club level & test level. It did work for Richard harry because he had the 'headspace'. Others suggested this of Willie O. but would he have had the particular truculence to perform in this new role. I think not. But the thing is you can grow into it. Body type. Look at Sio & Slipper both are looseheads but their body type traditionally suggest a tight-head like a Fran Cotton or Graham Price or even Piet du Toit. Ben Robinson is traditional loosehead reminiscent of Ian Mighty Mouse McLachlan. Each position does require a different mindset. Timing. Despite the Engage direction this still needs to be called by the hooker as the authoritive director & organiser of the YOUR scrum. There still is a 'hit' but obviously not of the same nature as previous. Ref's call it sure but you don't cede control to him. While the natural wheel of the scrum is through the RHS tight-head it is happening far too often. There must be counters to this and I can't believe the communication needed to recognise this in the 8 isn't there through a blindside barking for stepping either across or into at an angle. I concur with the observation above re: bent arms, loose binding. When the rule came in the tighthead had to keep a straight arm to stop dragging the loosehead around or doing a 'dolphin' like Phil Blakeway exhibited. Hookers often complained they couldn't breathe. Good. Just hook the dam ball. Some would bind on the V. buttons with the jersey. it would cut your hands but the length of your arm had no slack. Aside from the safety aspect (which we should never ever forget) the popping of shoulders actually dissipates explosive power. But the flexibility advantage seems to win out like moulded studs and low cut soft toe boots. Caveat: I absolutely respect any athlete who represents their country and of course I recognise they have experienced the pace & serious furnace of international rugby & the real pressure that brings in every sense of the word but we can't continue to carry on like we have for the last decade. Drop the 'sink and heave' scrum call & sink on the 'and now' TOGETHER with your feet inside your shoulder blades. Physics 101.

Topo do you still have your boots. I reckon you could still take these guys on. Loved watching your front row and Links front row play. Fantastic stuff.

Not until they play club footy and harden these marshmellows up

I submitted an article earlier this week along similar lines, but it hasn't appeared. I looked back over the stats. Australia has conceded 9 penalty tries over the last 10 years. Three in 2014 is our equal worst result. We conceded three in 2010, including two in one game against England (in Perth!). The 9 include 4 against France, two against England, two against Wales and one against NZ. We have also had 5 yellow cards for props in that period. As the weekend shows, penalty tries are not the only indicator of a poor scrum, and you can be smashed without conceding them. But that is a lot of points. If you add scrum penalties converted to that, I would guess it is up around 350 to 400 points!

They didnt smash the ABs. Thats for WBs The Pom AB pen try was more about good powerful scrums than luck The first scrum pen they won against the ABS was in the first half (33')

Paul - I'd agree partly with you on that. The number of times I saw opposition tightheads arm, shoulder or armpit bind against the Wallaby LH over the spring tour 2014 was astounding and everytime it was ignored by the referees, even when right in front of them and the scrum went down. I hate to see ignoring of the laws at international level, but we may need to start bending the laws as you say - problem is the refs are already all over the wallabies for minor stuff! Re the back 5, I still think we don't pack correctly (ie tightly enough) and while we are lower than previous years, its still a bit too high alot of the time. Hooper et al need to stay bound and push, not pop their heads all the time.

Got to say I agree with all that Topo. When talking abut the foundations, I think binding is one thing that has been lost/overlooked. When I think back to my junior days and all the time spent on getting and keeping a good bind let alone the endless grip strength exercises we were put through but guys come through these days think you are talking a foreign language when you talk about binding. I was taught a scrum should never splinter apart yet it seems all too common. I agree with another comment I read about training in shorts rather than jerseys bringing bad habits as how can you be tightly bound in a stretchable training shirt. I also agree on the coaching focus. if all our junior coaches addressed this appropriately then the guys coming through would be fine. I often feel that it is the area that most junior coaches feel least comfortable so it is easier to avoid and focus on the things they are more confident with (catch/pass etc). It leaves us where we are though - not a good place!

The English scrum didn't smash New Zealand. They got a lucky call for a penalty try at the end but the whole game leading up to it had them both gaining parity.