When I arrived squawking and howling into this world, my birthplace was quite firmly to the eastern side of the mythical line that divides the western part of Sydney from the rest.
I have lived on that side all my life. Up until now that is. Trying to juggle the hot potato that is the Sydney property market I have ended up well and truly on the western side of that line.
Over the years I had picked up some stereotypes about people from western Sydney and wondered if all the stories were really true.
So I grabbed my passport and western Sydney phrasebook and, Leopold Bloom-like, set out on a one-day journey across the greater west to discover the culture and sporting tastes of my new neighbours.
On the train I flicked through the phrasebook – ‘Livvo’ means Liverpool. ‘Yous’ means you and at least one other companion. ‘Have a feed’ means an all-you-can-eat buffet at one of the big clubs. (These buffets are not for the faint-hearted. One time when I momentarily lent on the buffet table some wag poured gravy over my thumb and prodded it with a fork.)
Ah, here was my first stop, Liverpool.
Would my worst fears be confirmed? Would I step off the train to be confronted by a gang of troubled youths in Greater Western Sydney Giants jerseys? Not really. Most people I spoke to in Liverpool were quite friendly. The homeless lad across from the station busking for his supper couldn’t be nicer. He’d had a hard life but never received a hand-out from the government he said. As I left I told him that with his Eddie Vedder-esque voice he should audition for Australian Idol. He said they wouldn’t like people like him, but I’m not so sure.
At Penrith I asked a lady in a Penrith NRL jumper who she supported and she said Penrith. It was a similar tale at Parramatta.
At this stage I still hadn’t been set upon by thugs or spat at, but when a bunch of teenage school kids boarded the bus to Blacktown that I was on, it was surely just a matter of time.
It proved to be a disappointment. Not only were the youngsters well behaved, but they were polite, quiet, respectful and for the most part seemed to be talking about their homework. Finding a stereotype was proving to be like finding a needle in a haystack. When the bus passed Parklea I toyed with the idea of finding my stereotype in the jail, but decided instead to ask some of the local families about their sporting allegiances.
I asked a bloke watering his garden “who is the local Super Rugby team?” He put down the hose, slowly walked backwards, then called in his kids and ran inside and bolted the door.
I changed tack and asked a woman with a car load of kids which AFL team they supported. “GWS”, she said “and they are playing at home on the weekend.”
“Is that within walking distance? Can you give me directions to the stadium?” I asked her.
“Sure – drive to Mascot airport and catch a plane.”
Football is the thing though. It had registered that on my travels from Liverpool to Baulkham Hills, the red and black hoops of the Western Sydney Wanderers were a constant. The enthusiastic support for the Wanderers among the local families is heartening. It’s almost addictive.
Now I can’t say that I was born and bred a Sydney FC fan – anyone over the age of 10 cannot in truth say this – but I have supported them since day one of the A-League, and most of my veins have a slight blueish tinge.
However, the change of location has presented me with a dilemma.
I thought it would be best to check with someone sharing my experience. So I asked my wife, “Now that we are in the new digs will you still support Sydney FC?”
Channelling Molly Bloom, as only she can, she said, “First I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.”
A bit over-dramatic but at least I knew where she stood. But where do I stand?
I do miss being near the coast. I love standing on one of the headlands of Sydney Harbour watching the ocean slowly and silently rolling into the sandstone cliffs. You get the sense of the geographical Australia, like a ship steering its course across the vast expanse of the South Pacific.
However, not far from my new place you can view the sunsets over the Great Dividing Range. In the distance you can’t see anything man made, and it appears now as it did before the Europeans came, all wild and rugged and silent and blue. Therein lies the dilemma.
So Roarers, should you support the team of your birth certificate or the team of your post code?
Justin Mahon
Guest
Gemba a highly rated. Best of breed in the opinion of a market research mate of mine. I didn't know James Hird was involved, but until I moved to Melbourne I didn't know who he was.
Justin Mahon
Guest
I am club before country, but I have only come to this since the advent of the A-League. Predominantly because I have a team that, for a variety of reasons, is stable and participating in the top flight (available at the ground and on TV therefore) for an extended period of time and I have become rusted on. Coming from regional Australia the opportunities were few a far between to enjoy top flight football and the clubs disappeared (as entities) as often as they arrived (e.g. Inter Monaro, Canberra Cosmos). Since moving to Melbourne and going to the VPL to watch South Melbourne and the A-League (and to the NPL more recently) to see Melbourne Victory has me rusted on at the club level and I hate it when the national trams deplete the Victory senior squad (6 at the last window). I know on one level it is not right, but it is clear to me that my views on this have changed.
Doc Disnick
Roar Guru
"But, I’m sure you’re good at what you do – massaging legs, etc." and there you have it, yet again. The big bad cyber-bully getting all personal again. Pretty impressive that bit of info considering you have no idea what I do. And even if that were true, it just does not change the fact you can't provide me a link to what I have asked for. "And no one can stop real fans of clubs from laughing at the event-watching hangers on." I think everyone can see the type of person you are from this comment to Woodo above also Fuss. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but what you are not entitled to is continual harassment on the topic. Keep it up Fuss and I'm sure you will be permanently removed from this forum. Now I'm not going to get personal with you Fuss. Your the one that gets rattled in these conversations. You have shown it time and time again. If you want to have this discussion, then stay on topic. Your personal remarks only weaken your argument. "Nothing you’ve written has even the slightest relevance to how market research consultants operate in the commercial world." I understand some companies perform their own in-house research, if in fact this is what you are saying. This does not make it a credible source for all the reasons I mentioned, and when someone challenges you on the source then you better be willing to back it up. You have backed it up with the Gemba Group. As I mentioned this company has James Hird as one of it's directors. The same man that only two years ago was found guilty of bringing the game of AFL into disrepute. This is the same company that came under fire also for labelling the Cronulla Football Club the most deceitful club in Australia. This was based on a 'study' performed by them and was criticised harshly within the sporting fraternity for it's inconsistencies, particularly considering the EFC was also being investigated for similar peptide use at the time. Conveniently the second largest football club in Australia wasn't labelled this by this 'study' by the Gemba Group'. Oh that's right, James Hird just happened to be the coach of this club at the time also...funny that. So you will excuse me when I challenge this: "Most of the market research & insights quoted in that document seems to have been provided by a company called Gemba, who are well know & respected by those of us with business backgrounds" The way you have written that suggests you have never heard of The Gemba Group yourself. Sadly for you, I have. You don't really think someone like me who follows the AFL very closely would not have heard of it? Don't bother answering that. I can stick the boot in even further. This company has been struggling significantly over the past two years, mainly because of increased competition from other marketing companies. One in particular is Andrew Demetrio's (former AFL CEO) company, which further fuelled speculation about a conflict of interest between Hird and the AFL when handing down sanctions. Now of course, I could go to their website and look this research article up myself. The only problem is their website is still under construction. Says a lot about a company when they can't even have a functioning website up while they are rebuilding a new one. Perhaps Hird will find time to do it himself should he be suspended again for unethical behaviour? Your the one that decided to make an argument about MY opinion. Your the one that got yourself into this mess and then made it personal. I'll finish with this though Fussy: "You obviously have ZERO experience in the business world. Nothing you’ve written has even the slightest relevance to how market research consultants operate in the commercial world." Well I guess for all us credible people that don't rely on 'in-house' research from dodgy third parties, we will just have to rely on this: http://www.ajbmr.com For you to even mention this has no relevance just shows your lack of understanding of how credibility works. If you are going to reference something as 'research' Fuzzy, then make damn sure it is research from a credible source. Your turn champ.
Woodo
Guest
Of course though it's entirely subjective for someone to define what a 'real' fan is. I would consider myself a 'real' fan in the same mould as I assume you are referring to, however it's my understanding that it's the 'event watchers' of the world that pay for the EPL and football in general to be as big a thing as it is. Is it us 'real' fans that pay for Rooney's wages to stay at United? I doubt it. Each to their own, when we make ourselves out to be superior to others just because we have more devotion to a single club or cause we just wind up looking a little silly.
Ben of Phnom Penh
Roar Guru
The Hibbs-West Coast hate-fest sounds like a reasonable approach. It's funny how these things come about. A mate of mine had a girlfriend who would only have him if he supported Plymouth-Argyle, so he duly bought a scarf and a shirt. He moved on from the girlfriend a good 20 years ago however could never shake Plymouth-Argyle :D
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
@Rick You obviously have ZERO experience in the business world. Nothing you've written has even the slightest relevance to how market research consultants operate in the commercial world. But, I'm sure you're good at what you do - massaging legs, etc.
Doc Disnick
Roar Guru
How convenient. I'm sure the information you supplied would be very valuable and one can only fathom it's value in the marketing world of sport. :) You do realise if this research was publish then there would be an abstract for all to read? Perhaps you can link me to this then? Do you know if it is for sale? You have alluded to this being the case, and if so, then there should indeed be an abstract for prospective buyers to read. After all any company would need to justify this expense to their own board, as you should know if you do have a 'business background'???? This justification comes in the assurance of an abstract. This ensures the prospective buying that indeed the research was conducted in a professional and ethical manner within a credible institution, which is up to them to determine after reading it. You should also know that if anyone conducts research with a research institution (not necessarily a university) and fails to submit their findings then this is also available to the public to read. This is done so consumers are not fooled by companies that perform in-house research, much like most cosmetic companies do when they claim their own research shows their skin care products will make you look 100 years younger. So, where was I. That's right, where is this link to the abstract for this research?
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
And no one can stop real fans of clubs from laughing at the event-watching hangers on.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
"Any time you want to link me to the actual research though, please do so. I’d be interested if it was published that’s all." Most professional market research isn't available for free whilst it is still topical. For details on the underlying methodology & data used in the FFA's report, I suggest you contact either the FFA and/or Gemba directly. If the information is available for purchase I'm sure they accept major credit cards.
Doc Disnick
Roar Guru
Oh you must be referring to the company that James Hird is one of the directors of. Yes, highly credible company indeed when it comes to sports?????????????? Any time you want to link me to the actual research though, please do so. I'd be interested if it was published that's all.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
I quoted text from the FFA's document "Whole of Football Plan" that was released today. The excerpt is on page 69. Most of the market research & insights quoted in that document seems to have been provided by a company called Gemba, who are well know & respected by those of us with business backgrounds. Of course, people who are ancillary health care providers may not have heard of Gemba & may need to do some background research to decide if Gemba are worthy market analysts.
langou
Roar Guru
For me there are only three teams that I truly support; Socceroos, Glory and Dockers. I started following these teams when I about 13 and it has become too ingrained. I now live in Melbourne and wondered whether I would start to develop a soft spot for any of the local teams - it has never happened. I did buy a three-game Melbourne City membership this year but that was because one of the games was Perth and I wanted to support the A-League and help City boost their crowds a bit. I suppose I would class myself as a casual fan of the Rebel and Storms. I am not passionate about them but if they are on T.V. and I am home I will flick over to them. On the odd occasion I will go to one of their games at AIMI Oh yeah, and I am a fan of the Scottish team Hearts, That is because me and one of my best mates who is from Scotland did a deal; I will support Hearts and hate Hibbs if he supports Fremantle and hates West Coast.
Doc Disnick
Roar Guru
"people who list half a dozen teams they allegedly support … but never actually watch." You do like making factual statements Fuss with no actual fact to back it up. I'm guessing you can prove these people don't actually watch these games? Got some research to back this up perhaps? BTW, mind linking me to the above research you mentioned there? I would love to see what institution it was conducted at and the methodology used. It looks more like a survey that fans answered, which was on the back of a FourN Twenty pie wrapper, that's all. Now Fuss, we both know you are not going to be able to answer those questions the way you would like, so I'll end with this: You do realise there is no right or wrong answer in this discussion right?
Woodo
Guest
United fans gave up their right to be offended by these kinds of supporters when they sat and did nothing while their club sold it's soul for broadcasting dollars. Same can be said for just about every club in that division. I'm with Rick on this one, no one can tell you how to support your club and no one can tell you that your support is less pure than theirs.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
The FFA's Whole of Football Plan released today has a nice connection to this discussion of which team to support. In particular on Page 69 it says: "From existing research in 2015, Australian Football fandom is based on: > Tribalism: fans want to belong & feel part of something bigger > Identity: fans want Football to be part of who they are > Loyalty: football fans want to be valued by their club and, in return, will support them whether they win or lose > Social: fans want to spend time with their friends & family" Heck that could almost have been copied & pasted from my thoughts on the what it means to be a fan of a football club. And, it exposes to ridicule people who list half a dozen teams they allegedly support ... but never actually watch.
Doc Disnick
Roar Guru
And there is the bite. You don't disappoint Fussy, not one bit. Go read my last sentence there again tough guy. You just couldn't resist could you. Try not to get suspended in your next response to me either like you did last time.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
"... follow United, but have a soft spot for Arsenal." And, I laughed & I laughed! Any true United fan would treat you with utter contempt for such an admission. You sound like an event-watcher with a remote control.
Doc Disnick
Roar Guru
Born in Adelaide, played SANFL footy for the Magpies, but follow the Geelong Cats in the AFL since all my childhood stars played for them and Port Power didn't come into the comp until years later Lived and worked in the UK for nearly 10 years, follow United, but have a soft spot for Arsenal. Follow the Melbourne Storm in the NRL since Adelaide doesn't have a team. Follow the Tah's now in union as I now live in Sydney and never grew up with rugby. I don't follow any team in the ALeague. Go figure hey, some people just don't fit the stereotypical norm. Whether its a post code or birth place, follow who ever you like. You can never be wrong, despite what others may tell you.
cm
Guest
The article hints that the trouble the other week was as a result of the poor form. Bollocks. Talks about the large away contingents in the first couple of seasons but fails to mention the large contingents this season for a team that, if it hadn't been for the jets, would have had the worst a-league season ever. Talks about the attendance - 12500 - as if this is bad for that same team. There are a couple of long term established a league clubs that would kill for that. No mention of the extremely adverse weather that resulted in delayed games and low attendances multiple times. No mention of the extra midweek games and the floating schedule that changed over the course of the season. No mention of the fact that most games, by virtue of the high membership numbers, are sellouts - and that this is an issue for getting a walkup crowd. I also suggest that the author run some numbers on the percentage crowds drop off across the country when teams don't make finals. You might be surprised at the uniformity of it.
AZ_RBB
Guest
Article made sense til he quoted Gorman saying the league needs a strong SFC and MVFC. They were the top 2 teams in a season which the article describes as a poor one. The writer needs to pick his quotes a little better in the future. Also, quite a few typos in that article. Surprised it got published. The problem isn't with SFC and MVFC. It's the inability of the seemingly smaller clubs to string together even a bandwagon in their home cities.