A tale of two Toms: Boyd and Hawkins

Franko maybe yr right about Hawkins but IMO as a Geelong supporter his big goal at the start of the last qtr in the 09 GF put us back in the game his absolute dominance in the last qtr of the 11 GF meant we were never going to lose it so thats top class to me.

Completely disagree Pumping Dougie Have you not watched how the Boyd moves? How many times have you seen him take a mark inside 50 on the lead? Lets be honest here he has a bit of puppy fat on him which restricts his athleticism.

Completely disagree Pumping Dougie Have you not watched how the Boyd moves? How many times have you seen him take a mark inside 50 on the lead? Lets be honest here he has a bit of puppy fat on him which restricts his athleticism. By looking at your display photo i'm tipping your a dogs supporter so maybe you have some bias. However tell me since say 2000 how many good 200cm+ full forwards have their been? I'll help you out as well I reckon you could count Tippett as one

Agree with your comments Jason K, except for the "bit early to make such a conclusion" (Hawkins is in his 8th season) and the comparison to Lenny Hayes. Hayes is in a completely different league to Hawkins and was a champion of the St Kilda Football Club.

Bit early to make such a conclusion about Hawkins? I think he has quite a few more seasons in him. He'll wind up his career with the respect of the community, like a Lenny Hayes-type player. Not the absolute best of all time, but a charismatic player who is remembered as having been a joy to watch. It's not always about every tiny little stat.

I have nothing interesting to add other than I just really like watching TommyHawk each week. I don't really care about Geelong as a team, but I do enjoy watching Hawkins rip a few jerseys and generally play like a freak of nature in terms of talent. He's got a good face, too. I could see him in an action movie. Shame he wasn't cast in the new Mad Max.

Well said Nick, spot on.

I'd argue he has plenty of athletic ability and that's one of the attractions. He's been helping out in the ruck and around the ground regularly this season. He hasn't done particularly well at it mind you, but he certainly looks agile and athletic. After a couple more pre-seasons I think he'll be a dominant ruckman / forward, with ability to play FF, CHF, Ruck and probably elsewhere if required.

Thanks for that Steele. I couldn't understand how calling somebody "the great white hope" was deemed sledge of the season. Didn't seem very witty or special to me at all. But Hogan's response as you've outlined, was a gem - well played Hogan!

Hawkins will not even go down as 'One of the Greats' of Geelong, let alone of the game. Hawkins is a decent player, but not a great one. He is great in some games, like Jarrad Waite and Drew Petrie and Jay Schulz or Travis Cloke. He is less consistent that Jarryd Roughhead for example and not as good a player. So if Boyd only becomes as good as Hawkins, as a Bulldogs supporter I would be disappointed. But I'm rapt with Boyd's season so far. I don't expect him to dominate at 19. His body is tiring and the bye this weekend will give him a chance to re-energise. He is still providing value as a target most games. True, he's not providing value for money at the moment, but he wasn't really expected to in his first couple of seasons. In a few years time when he reaches his potential, a million a year might seem very cheap.

With absolute gun forward, you know by the time they turn 20. Warren Tredrea age 19, 2nd season, 17 games, 33 goals Jonathan Brown age 19, 2nd season, 25 games, 38 goals Matthew Pavlich age 19, 2nd season, 21 games, 28 goals Lance Franklin age 19, 2nd season, 14 games, 31 goals Matthew Lloyd age 19, 4th season, 23 games, 70 goals ---- Tom Hawkins age 19, 2nd season, 10 games, 13 goals Hawkins will go down in history as a very good forward, but not top tier, much like Travis Cloke or Scott Lucas. Boyd is currently what 10 games 11 goals and on the road to being a very good forward, but not in the bracket of Brown, Pavlich, Franklin, Lloyd etc.

Bob Murphy actually labelled Hogan the great white hope while kicking a set shot. Hogan simply told him where their great hope was. On the pine wearing red!

Couldn't agree more. The statement that "Bulldogs fans must give Tom Boyd the same time to develop his game, grow into his body, and find his range. And the club’s coaching staff must keep the faith, either through persisting with him in the firsts or allowing him to grow in confidence in the seconds" is just a incredibly simplistic statement. Dogs supporters, aside from two years of Hall, haven't had a key forward worth the term since Chris Grant. From everything that I can tell, with Bulldogs supporters in my family, online and through my mates, absolutely nobody has put any pressure on Boyd. Everybody understands that it's incredibly hard for a 19 year old key forward to dominate, let alone one who has a style based around raw strength like Hawkins as opposed to having a motor and mobility to run all day like Hogan, or the agility of someone eight inches shorter like Cameron. The pressure that is placed on him is definitely not internal, it came largely from the media who were initially shocked at such a opportunistic and unique deal, not only because the whole scenario around Griffen occurring at the same time, but also because ever since Hall had retired the media had all stated very strongly that we needed to poach a forward from another club, usually offering Patton as an example. Furthermore, whilst this article is no more guilty of it than pretty much every other article about Boyd since he was traded, there's little to no reference to the wider market consideration of Boyd. Not only is poaching a player from any other club inherently more expensive and more difficult than drafting a player, but it fails to account for both the competition and opportunity cost from the Dogs' perspective. Every club in the league was circling Boyd and there is no doubt that identical offers would have been made from every club with the salary cap room (Carlton most visibly) when he was out of contract a year later, with Griffen throwing a spanner in the works. Secondly, the Dogs aren't a destination club, and they had just dumped a lot of salary with Higgins, Cooney and Griffen leaving. Aside from over-paying their existing players, they had to pay someone something, and who better to pay than the previous number 1 selection in the draft. All of this isn't even getting into the negative perception of Boyd's playing ability since he was traded, which is something that is touched on well. Boyd's not only doing as well as everybody should expect, there's no negative features of his game that are obvious that will inevitably be his downfall. I see nothing in his game that will let me consider him any less likely to be the star that he was hyped up to be at U/18 level.

Wow Sarah, you slap him mercilessly then in the next breath say he's only 19, give him time. "It’s demoralising for the team, the supporters, and most of all, for Boyd", the supporters know this, the team certainly does and Tom is a really level headed kid and he knows it. Jake "Jesse" Stringer and Tory Dickson and at times the small forwards have benefited from Tom making a contest that we haven't had for years at the Dogs. Is it any coincidence that in the two recent games that he was subbed out our forward structure went to pieces and we looked much less dangerous, still banging the ball in long when there was no one there to mark it or make that contest. "Bulldogs fans must give Tom Boyd the same time to develop his game, grow into his body, and find his range. And the club’s coaching staff must keep the faith, either through persisting with him in the firsts or allowing him to grow in confidence in the seconds". Believe me the members and supporters know this and obviously the coaching team do. The only pressure is coming from external media who just want a story and morons like Leigh Matthews who hoped the deal, and therefore the kid, would fail to stop future deals like this happening.

The more articles about Toms the better, I say. You could also throw in Gold Coast's Tom Lynch, whose record across his first 25 games was pretty similar to Boyd and Hawkins, but broke through in a big way in his fourth season of senior footy. Not sure what the particular relevance of Tom Mitchell is, to be honest, apart from having the same name. He's hardly the only player who had to work on his game in the reserves, or in the seniors for that matter, before breaking through. The challenges are enormous for young key forwards. Not all of them ever manage to overcome them. Some of the most highly rated go on to have perfectly fine careers but never really capitalise on their talent to the fullest extent, like Justin Koschitzke, Justin Longmuir or Lachie Hansen. Some don't even reach that level, which appears to be the likely fate of Tyrone Vickery, John Butcher and Sam Day. That's why the Dogs' offer seemed a little daft. Boyd could become a dominant forward, or he could become a decent player, or he could become nothing at all. But right now they're paying him dominant forward wages.

Good article. We all know Boyd needs time and generally speaking the taller 200cm+ boys need that extra time to develop. But what I will say is how often does a 200cm+ player work just as a Full Forward? The problem is Boyd will never be athletic or agile and when its wet they get no more than 5 kicks in the game. IMO 200cm forwards rarely work and I think Boyd will ultimately fall into that category because he has no edge or athletic ability.

Give him time, yes. But plenty of young key forwards that were high draft picks have shown little as a youngster and then gone on to do nothing later in their career. Graham Polak for example. There are no guarantees with Boyd.

The problem. for the Bulldogs is that if Boyd does most of his contract time before he matures into a forward worth big coin, they will need to pay big coin to retain him, and have hardly got their moneys worth for the first five years. For that outlay they would have expected a return after a couple of years. Aside from the outrageous contract though, there's nothing worrying about his form - big forwards, like ruckmen, generally take time. Normally whilst they are on training wheels they get paid beginners coin.

Boyd seems to be too heavy at such an early age, it would be interesting to see whether this was deliberate from the coaching staff to prepare Boyd for being the focal point and absorbing the hits he will take in his current role. I like comparing Joe to Tom, both joining the AFL within a year of each other and drafted with similar hype. Boyd is over 10 Kg heavier than Daniher despite being 1cm shorter. Daniher looks more mobile and a lot more dangerous up forward with his stats backing him up. At similar points of their career, Daniher (at the end of last season with 26 games) has averaged over 5 disposals and 2 marks more while averaging 1.2 goals a game. With Stringer, Dickson and Crameri all being mobile I can see why they need a bit of a bull up forward to negate contests by bringing the ball to ground. From games I've seen, Boyd has being doing this extremely well, which is great for the team yet appears to to be affecting his confidence and development.