Ledesma scoffs at two hookers concern

Even that is being cagey. One of my favourite things about Cheika is his lack of double speak. They should just be upfront.

its relevant because the game has changed since 2003. Props would regularly play both sides in 200 for example. How many do that in 2015?

There are. Moore and TPN are not among them both averaging less than 60 minutes per game in 2014.

Of course they have been, but people sometimes people just want to be outraged.

Some good posts sherminator. Perso I still think 3 hookers and 5 props is the best combo for a rwc and gives the squad an extra buffer not only during matches but also at training. I just think the pressure on the 2 hookers who have to be In the 23 for every game will be unnecessarily high. No last minute sickie, stomach/muscular thing allowed with the 2 hookers thing, they have to be fit no matter what. It may have worked for the argies before but they had a different pack culture and am sure they had more confidence in their big guys at the time than Cheika/ledesma have in theirs right now. The wallabies are just showing a slight improvement and I think this needs to be consolidated. When I hear/read coaches the number of front rowers they take is not only about natchday but also the extra confidence it brings to the group to have another big boy. Psychologically, I prefer having an extra forward than an extra wing. Didn't know aussies had only 4 props at the last 2 rwc. That's imo suicidal especially for a team notoriously weak at scrumtime.

Demonstrating your lack of knowledge of the Aussie front row there ... maybe thats why you keep harping on about this. Foley retired in 2001 ... Cannon and Paul were the Wallaby hookers at the 2003 RWC. Its not a pointless comparison ... 2003 was a rugby world cup, same number of pool games as this year, with 30 players in a squad .. we took 2 hookers and 4 props .. this year we can take 31 players and we are taking 2 hookers and 5 props. Regarding the "level" of the hookers, Each franchise had 3 contracted hookers at the time. Many people argue that the Aussie franchises were "stronger" at the time as talent was distributed across less teams, and competition within teams was stronger for starting spots, NSW for example had a policy of rotating Cannon and Freir for starting spots. the Brumbies did the same at times with Paul and Beaumont. Adam Freier was seen as a very good prospect and could have easily been chosen as a 3rd hooker in the squad (both he and hardman made their debut in Wallaby 2002) but Eddie Jones chose against this for the 2003 RWC. Teams played the same number of games as at RWC 2015, replacment rules were similar (72 hours notice whereas in 2015 it is 48), and Australia had no problem with their hookers getting injured. If I remember correcyl Matt Dunning, a prop, trained as an emergency hooker in addition to his normal prop role. Out the 9 super contracted hookers Cannon, Paul, Freier and Hardman had all already played for the Wallabies, 3 others, Moore, Edmonds and Mcisaac went on to play for the Wallabies in later years. The contracted Super Rugby hooker in 2003 were the following: Reds Sean Hardman (Wallabies debut 2002) Stephen Moore (Wallabies debut 2005) Tai Mcisaac (Wallabies debut 2006) Waratahs Brendan Cannon (Wallabies debut 2001) Huia Edmonds (Wallabies debut 2010) Adam Freier (Wallabies debut 2002) Brumbies Jeremy Paul (Wallabies debut 1998) Digby Beaumont Damian Flynn The point is we have gone to a world cup with 2 hookers before ... this time we have 2 hookers and an extra prop .. the pecking order in hookers seems sorted, with Moore first en TPN the reserve, regarding props we are still switching and changing .... to find the best combination .. that is probably why Cheika and Ledesma chose 5 props and 2 hookers.... to allow this to continue, and also on the baiss of both England and Wales being strong scrummaging teams. Selecting two complete teams decision also makes sense when you consider the short turnaround between the Uruguay and Fiji games .. and the possibility that the pool could come down to points for and against, in particular how many you can rack up against Uruguay and Fiji. So you play two distinct teams to maximise your score, and avoid player tiredness and or injury due to having games so close together.

Excellent post. I think the 5 prop point is a bloody good one as well.

Peter-would Horne also be playing at 13 at training?

I am sure you are right, but I hope it doesn't back fire. If for any reason something happens the noise levels in social media will be deafening.

Die Hard that's not quite the case. He has included a 5th prop where generally only 4 were previously included (as there were only 3 in the 22). But the rules have become more strict on squads like you said, to prevent uncontested scrums.

I am concerned that either could play out the pools such is their fragility. I can certainly see a scenario where Sio had to play for a half at Hooker. I would hope not against England.

In the past the squad was 30 and then one was added so we would more or less guarantee against a no push scrum scenario. Cheika has used the extra member as a back which is totally against the reasoning for extending the squad.

In 2003 they also likely only had 6 professional hookers to choose from. The drop from Cannon/Foley to the next candidate would have potentially been larger. Perhaps it's a risk worth taking when Sean Hardman is your next option anyway. In 2015 they have 15 in professional systems. James Hanson was actually in better form late in the season than the two in the squad so it's nowhere near the drop. He also already has 10 Wallaby caps. How frequent were injuries in 2003 compared to 2015? What were the replacement rules in 2003? Unless everything was the same it's really a pointless comparison.

All those things are skills you lose quickly when not practiced.

I think because he read Roar a few years back that there prop stock was poor. So he figured, thats the quickrst way to wear Gold

For crying out loud, not sure why there is STILL such a scandal. For what its worth, below I have outlined Aussie hooker/prop mixes in all RWCs. You can see we only took 2 hookers In 1987, 1991 and 1995, but it is worth noting that squads consisted of only 26 players, obviously in this case you would never take more than 2 hookers in that era. Since 1999 squads have been 30 or 31 players, in the 2003 RWC (like now) we took only two hookers and the world didnt end and we didnt have to forfeit any games (like some people have suggested). Ledesma is no chump when it comes to scrums ..you can see the impact he has had at both the Waratahs and Wallabbies, he played 4 RWCs and was the guy who pushed Fede Mendoza out of the Pumas, and who kept John Smit (who at the time he was signed for Clermont was a RWC winning captain) out of the Clermont starting line up, so much so that Smit quit the club. 2015 – Aust 2 hookers and 5 props 2011 – Aust 3 hookers and 4 props 2007 - Aust 3 hookers and 4 props 2003 – Aust 2 hookers and 4 props * RWC Finalists 1999 – Aust 3 hooker and 4 props * RWC Winners 1995 – Aust 2 hookers, 4 props 1991 – Aust 2 hookers, 4 props * RWC Winners 1987 – Aust 2 hookers, 4 props In 2003 Australia only took 2 hookers to the world cup and somehow, despite this ghastly horrendous, doomsday, suicidal, crime against humanity, we managed to make the final. in 1999 Australia took 3 hookers to the world cup, and when Phil Kearns was injured and ruled out of the tournament, Rod Macqueen decided to replace him with an extra prop, instead of bringing in another hooker. “The Australian camp have also announced today that prop Glenn Panoho has been drafted into their World Cup squad as replacement for injured hooker Phil Kearns.” Calm down people … the world isnt going to end and the people in charge of the Wallabies do have an idea about RWCs and forward play.

Sharminator - not disparaging your skills but throwing into a lineout at international level where the opposition is high class & looking to disrupt your ball might be a touch harder then having muscle memory.

Coach says his players are the best in the world. Shock, horror. What do you expect him to say - yep, we have two blokes who are ok, not great but ok?

Cheika has decided to take an extra prop ... in the past Australia has taken 3 hookers and 4 props to RWCs .. this time Cheika has decided to take 2 hookers and 5 props, in other words extra prop sacraficing a reserve reserve hooker. It is worth bearing in mind that even in 2011, with Stephen Moore having backspasms ruling him out in the warm up before a game, Australia´s reserve reserve hooker, Fainga, only got on the pitch for a half against the USA.

So Sio being a former rep back rower was likely good around the park and apparently can throw great according to you guys. Why did he move to prop? I'd say it's likely because he wasn't going to be good enough to make it at hooker.