The A-League ban cycle

By NUFCMVFC / Roar Guru

Hot on the heels of Rebecca Wilson’s article in The Daily Telegraph, publishing the names and faces of many people on the FFA’s banned list, fans have voiced their discontent not just towards sections of the Australian media but equally toward the FFA.

Much has articulated itself around the notion of an ‘appeals process’, but the discussion needs to be refined so that it is understood that the discontent revolves around the fundamental nature and the tone of the FFA’s judicial system.

Of more importance than an appeals process is the development of a transparent framework of sentencing guidelines to determine the reasonable length of bans attributed to certain types of offences.

This is because on top of a rather unclear process of appeal, of most relevance has been the cycle of ever stiffer penalties and ban lengths for ever more frivolous offences.

For football fans, it needs to be said that what has perhaps struck a chord most deeply is not just the leaking of confidential identity information but rather the connection that Alan Jones seemed to suggest between A-League fans and those who carried out the recent Paris terrorist attacks.

Why does this strike a chord and what does it have to do with the FFA?

To answer that it is useful to go back to the A-League’s early days when the league’s explosive transition from a minority sport to a majority sport came with articles about crowd disorder and the associated comments from FFA officials about “zero tolerance”.

This was followed up with a low-key announcement by the FFA three days before Christmas in 2007 regarding the hiring of a consultancy firm called Hatamoto.

It did not escape fans’ notice that Hatamoto did not have any background experience in either football or dealing with football fans, rather their background qualifications were in counter-terrorism.

It’s hardly surprising then that this would come across as rather condescending and patronising and it has set the tone of the FFA-fan relationship ever since, which has involved the banning of the Eureka Flag among other things.

Fast forward to the previous week, and it is not too difficult to understand why Jones’ comments equating A-League fans and terrorism will have dredged up so much universal discontentment from fans towards the FFA.

Referring back to the issue of sentencing guidelines, it is necassary to point out that the FFA seem to have fundamentally misdiagnosed the root cause of disorder at football games and the reasons for negative publicity.

Nick S wrote an interesting article on The Roar about why the negative publicity occurs.

As for diagnosis, it needs to be said that the FFA and other authority figures seem to perceive disorder at football events occurring because of the anti-social disposition of some crowd members.

We can see how over time the continued mismanagement of A-League fans never failed to prevent crowd disorder issues from occasionally flaring up or negative publicity.

What is important to note, however, is that the FFA never revised their mindset as a result, but continuously reinforced the same “zero tolerance” policy framework based around regulatory measures and ever harsher penalties every time there was negative publicity.

For example, after four years the situation had evolved to the point where Ben Buckley was publicly mooting the idea of banning people from even being able to participate as a player in football.

By August 2012, there had been 43 people banned and ban lengths had increased to 3-5 years.

Of course, as we all know, within the last three years those numbers have increased to 198 and ban lengths in the timeframe of 10 years wasn’t an uncommon reference in the article.

This pattern represents something of an exponential increase.

Modern schools of thought understand disorder as occurring as a process of interaction between groups – often between different fan groups – but the police and stadium security staff are understood as a group as well and a contributing factor.

Therefore, the way in which the FFA, and police or security, interact with fans is a critically important factor given they impact the crowd psychology of the fans.

If the FFA seem really want to change their attitude, actions speak louder than words and they should hire new security advisors able to advise on managing the crowd psychology of fans.

As for policing and security, it would also be useful to utilise a low-profile friendly but firm approach in place of a high-profile zero tolerance approach.

Adopting a more fluid and dynamic graded deployment approach, which has about four levels at international tournament level but would perhaps only require three at A-League level, for marquee fixtures would also prospectively be of benefit.

This is a system where for example Level 1 consists of a comprehensive net of friendly community police in pairs engaging the crowd positively and promptly nipping any emerging disorder issues early in the escalation cycle (before a significant banning offence can even be committed. Level 3 consists of small groups of public order ‘sledgehammer’ police who are kept out of sight until required for a specific task and then withdrawn.

The Crowd Says:

AUTHOR

2015-12-01T15:12:23+00:00

NUFCMVFC

Roar Guru


Thank you very much, I gave Craig Foster some of his material and suggested to him that SBS should interview him when things were heating up between Vicpol and MV fans, They didn't interview him but Foz did quote a few things which was nice enough and SBS really covered the issue nicely As Nelson says above, the FFA never seemed to have listened, going by Gallops Press conference they still aren't Fwiw another persons whose material is good to look at is Otto Adang

2015-11-30T23:01:05+00:00

marron

Roar Guru


here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjWYHgH5ANU

2015-11-30T22:32:54+00:00

Perry Bridge

Guest


well there's no issue about flares to start with.

2015-11-30T15:23:47+00:00

RBBAnonymous

Guest


The football stadium is part of the SCG trust venues. In fact football is the SCG trusts major tennant.

2015-11-30T13:47:26+00:00

peeeko

Guest


in all honesty, what gets blamed as a violent venue in NSw isnt very violent. its a ploy by the NSW govt to say its cleaning up sydneys "mean streets" and i think its for the SCG whhere no football is played as for R Wislon she has gone on and on about RL fan problems for years

2015-11-30T13:45:31+00:00

fiddlesticks

Guest


good job of backing yourself there FUss. i am waiting for UJ to chime in next

2015-11-30T13:43:53+00:00

maxxy

Guest


you've really picked up the ball and run with it on this one Fuss. for at least 3 months. quite rightfully you constantly point out about events caused by a tiny fraction of people yet you constantly point to this one off event. hypocrisy?

2015-11-30T09:47:07+00:00

RBBAnonymous

Guest


It seems only football has a problem, we have 198 banned fans from venues. A report recently named the SCG trust as one of NSW most violent venues and yet football supporters were the least likely to appear banned from those venues. As it turns out we have 198 bans and yet the FFA is not doing enough, wow how convenient. The FFA just like that has put its head in the sand. Imagine my surprise when I found out that NRL has 19 bans on their list, the cricket has fewer than 10 as does the AFL. Furthermore the source of this information is none other than Rebecca Wilson herself. After all she would have had a copy of the list and read this information out on 5AA. Imagine that, only means one thing. Only football has a problem, Quite incredible. Are the cricket, AFL and NRL not doing enough or are we the only fans in the country to misbehave. Because of the harsh criteria by which the FFA polices and bans supporters they are readily admitting to a problem. Of course there are no problem fans with other sports, if there were there would be more bans on their lists. Just unbelievable. I must be another paranoid football fan with an agenda.

2015-11-30T08:44:53+00:00

AR

Guest


I would hope so. Just as I would hope anyone who engages in violence or wilful property destruction gets banned from every stadium for life. I certainly wouldn't be protesting their rights to appeal, but that's just me. Maybe in today's age I'm just an old fuddy duddy.

AUTHOR

2015-11-30T08:24:43+00:00

NUFCMVFC

Roar Guru


Yeah there certainly seems to be a fair bit of cultural resistance One of those things where it is simply easier to lay blame on others for problems rather than become introspective and go through the challenge of evolving their practices For my part I'm not critical of the police for being out of their depth, football was a minority sport for so long with only a few thousand in attendance and then suddenly it had tens of thousands in attendance so the patterns of football crowd behaviour were playing out over a much larger scale and so naturally as an institution they need to adapt Any criticism of the police, or rather the senior officers with strategic responsibility, is that they appear to be close-minded at this time to the point where their approach such as attempting to micro-manage WS fans is the precise opposite of good practice

AUTHOR

2015-11-30T08:19:25+00:00

NUFCMVFC

Roar Guru


Yeah I've been reading his stuff for a while. I linked a piece written by Otto Adang who is another expert to listen to in the area Wasn't aware he had gone to WS and given a lecture etc so thanks for sharing What you said about the Police is interesting, there seems to be an issue with media reporting such as "soccer fans are the most violent" by a senior policeman as if it is gospel when in reality an issue not being addressed is that football crowds behave differently and police forces are naturally struggling to adapt given they don't have institutional know-how built up over generations within the force given football was a minority sport. This is why half the issues flare up, in Australia football crowds are easy to manage compared to Europe with good practices put in place They have to admit they don't understand and then go about learning new methods but it sounds like there is resistance In this respect the senior police is similar to the media, will require older officers and older editors to be replaced over time by younger people who have a more open mind about football having spent much of their professional lives with football as a majority sport alongside the others

2015-11-30T06:58:07+00:00

RBBAnonymous

Guest


I thought he was only banned from Subiaco which is a nonsense, especially when you consider that the stadium will be made redundant when the new Perth oval is open in a few years time. I would hazard a guess that the AFL doesn't have a fan problem which is why they probably have no one a banned list. I feel safer already. Is the AFL not taking a tough stand on troublesome fans? Surely their ban list is a lot longer than the FFA's list. What constitutes a ban in AFL, what does it take. How many fans were banned when they attempted to burn the stadium down during the riot. But as you would have it, it was just AFL fans having a larf. Explained by Mister Football as "that’s one of the classic moments in Australian sporting history". Totally reassuring thanks.

2015-11-30T05:38:12+00:00

Mister Football

Roar Guru


C'mon RBBA = that's one of the classic moments in Australian sporting history - right up there with an elephant going beserk at Arden St. :)

2015-11-30T05:33:10+00:00

Fussball ist unser leben

Roar Guru


Has he been banned for life from attending any Aussie Rules matches - including grassroots - anywhere in Australia?

2015-11-30T05:28:53+00:00

AR

Guest


Thankfully, that fan was jailed today and is banned from attending stadiums in WA. I haven't seen, and don't expect to see, anyone protesting that action or trying to deflect his conduct.

2015-11-30T03:37:58+00:00

Roy

Guest


Honestly Fuss - you should pay this poor woman's medical expenses, considering the mileage you have got out of her being punched.

2015-11-30T03:18:49+00:00

Kaks

Roar Guru


Why is there always a Perry on every article who is quick to bring up incidences that happen in Football matches, but deflects incidences that happens in other sports as "a one off event"?

2015-11-30T03:17:22+00:00

Perry Bridge

Guest


#Ian Ironically there's a 2nd example in my next post but that's the first time in this current discussion I've specifically cherry picked examples and gone outside of the WSW/RBB discussion. These are all pertinent questions of what type of behaviour is deemed acceptable at sport in Australia. That is similar whether it's cage fighting (MMA), a bloke and his beer at the NBL or rival groups at the tennis or whatever. #Fussball - I'd rather have neither. But it seems you're more accepting.

2015-11-30T03:12:23+00:00

Nelson

Guest


Fans have been directing MVFC, stadia officials, VicPol and the FFA to the work done by Dr Clifford Stott since 2008. Not that any of these 'stakeholders' listened...

2015-11-30T02:58:44+00:00

CG2430

Guest


It was educational watching the Hillsborough doco (30 For 30 series) on ESPN a little while back, as well as reading up on overseas football and learning how police who 'get' football can deal with crowds more effectively because they have a sense of empathy. An overreactive presence can easily inflame a situation.

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