There has been quite a lot of chatter and debate regarding who is the greatest halfback of all time in rugby league.
This debate has picked up some momentum in recent months as Johnathan Thurston led the Cowboys to their maiden premiership and won a record-breaking fourth Dally M Medal.
Andrew Johns is regarded as the best halfback ever, his two premierships, three Dally M Medals and countless superstar performances have him named in the team of the century.
I am going to compare both players careers and explain how Johns is still the superior player.
Awards
Thurston has four Dally Ms to Johns’ three, with JT winning the last two on the trot, tying with Jarryd Hayne in 2014.
This is an incredible achievement for Thurston, however most people seem to forget 2005, when JT won his first Dally M, Johns missed the first eight games of the season through injury and still finished second by one freaking point.
Had Johns played even two of those games he would have won his fourth Dally M Medal and JT would have won three.
They have both won four halfback of the year awards, but JT has won three five-eighth of the year awards. However you must bear in mind that Johns was in an era with Ricky Stuart, Alfie Langer, and Brett Kimmorley, so winning awards would have been much more difficult.
JT has won three Golden Boots to Johns’ two, but from 1991-98 no Golden Boots were awarded, and these were Johns’ prime years.
Also, Johns has won five Rugby League Week Player of the Year awards to JT’s one.
Edge: Johns
State of Origin
In terms of series wins, Thurston beats out Johns 9-5. JT has been a key player in one of the greatest Origin teams ever, playing every game during that dominance.
Johns, on the other hand, couldn’t find his feet at one position as he played hooker and came off the bench. JT had more of an impact early in his Origin career and is the leading point scorer in Origin history.
However JT has never had a performance like Johns did in Game 2 of 2005. In that match, a returning Johns single-handedly destroyed Queensland.
Thurston has had many fine performances in his career no doubt, but never on the magnitude of some of Johns’ games.
I would also like to point out that the last three games Cooper Cronk has missed the Blues have won, and Thurston has been pretty average – maybe Cronk’s impact to that team is greater than JT’s?
Edge: even
Australia
Both of them have been brilliant for their country, JT with 33 Tests and Johns with 24. Johns achieved a higher winning percentage than JT, has won two World Cups to JT’s one, and the Kangaroos were always number one while Johns played.
But teams like New Zealand and England are significantly better now than 15-20 years ago when Johns played.
JT’s amazing play in the 2006 Tri-Nations final and man of the match in the final of the 2013 World Cup shows how good he is. He is also the highest point scorer for Australia. That tilts it towards JT.
Edge: JT
Premierships
They have both won two premierships and one Clive Churchill medal, but it is not as close as it seems.
JT’s first grand final was won playing off the bench to replace the injured Steve Price. He didn’t play many minutes and wasn’t the reason why the Bulldogs made or won the grand final.
Furthermore, while JT kicked the winning field goal to win the 2015 grand final, and handling that pressure must be commended, he did miss a tough sideline conversion which would have won them the game. The best player in world should be able to make that.
Thurston also made zero line breaks, provided zero try assists, and made two errors – one of them leading directly to Jack Reed’s try. I still don’t understand how he won Clive Churchill Medal, if it wasn’t for a piece of Michael Morgan magic and costly errors, Brisbane should have won.
Again, JT led the side to the grand final, but played an average game in the biggest game of his career.
By contrast, in the 1997 grand final Johns made the greatest clutch play ever by setting up Darren Albert to score in the dying seconds against the more fancied Manly team. The game was played during the Super League war, meaning the Knights didn’t play the Broncos, Bulldogs or Sharks. To top it off, he did it all with a punctured lung!
In 2001, he helped Newcastle beat raging favourites Parramatta, by blowing the Eels of the park with three try assists in the first half en route to the Clive Churchill Medal.
The Eels were the shortest-priced team in the grand final in 20 years and statistically the best attacking team in NRL history.
Johns simply preformed on a greater level against tougher opposition.
Edge: Johns
Overall
Johns has a slightly better kicking game and passing game, while JT has a marginally better running game and ball skills, plus JT is the greater leader and competitor.
They are very close in goal kicking as well, with Johns the second highest scorer in NRL history.
Johns and JT both lift players around them as only the greats can. In defence, JT was never the defender Johns was – too many times he has been run over, but to his credit he gets up to chase.
While Johns is the best defensive halfbacks ever, his days at hooker really helped him with his tackling. Also, Johns was the inventor of the banana kick and was a master attacking the short side.
Edge: Johns
Joey’s three to JT’s one shows that Johns is still the greatest halfback of all.
MattyG
Guest
Better commentator – JT ....Yeah uh I think um for sure yea ahm absolutely JT is not great on commentary..
josh
Guest
joey is way better i still cant belive theres a debate still anderw johns wins
Footynut
Guest
It has to be Thurston simply because Johns admitted himself in an article that he used to play while being loaded up on recreational drugs if that’s not performance enhancing I don’t know what is And they give him immortal status, what a joke The guy is a disgrace to the game, and still carrying on like a goose years later
Terry
Guest
Not to mention they had to play Johns at hooker because he wasn’t good enough to displace Langer at half back. This article is a dead set NSW bias joke.
Terry Young
Guest
You are joking. Thurston is the best half back ever, closely followed by Allan Langer then Johns. Alfie dominated Johns during his career even when he was in the twilight of his career in the third origin game called back from England and outplayed Johns easily. The only area Johns was surperoir was defends.
Truth
Guest
This is so biased it is un belivable. Jonathan thurston is the greatest halfback of all time. Mathew johns andrews brother evan says so. Jonathan thurston won the dally m in his first year of regular foot . You cant give state of origin even thats ridiculous. Andrew johns couldnt evan get a starting position. Andrew johns won a gf when the competition was much weaker. Andrew johns won a comp when players werent as big and strong as now to or as fit. Thurston owned origin for a decade even longer highest point scorer in history. You act like johns played in a bad nsw team johns played in one of is the not the best nsw teams ever an still never won as many as jt. What about all jonathan thurstons clutch plays in origin to win a game. Hes defense isnt to bad either. For a little man. Jonthan thurston is the greatest of all time all the legends say it. Johns played in a weaker competition he wouldnt make an nrl team today.
luke
Guest
johns didnt need the referees or the referees assistant (Cameron smith) to win origin
Wicksee
Guest
Too many words use in this argument. Andrew johns is by far the better defender, JT couldnt tackle to save his life. And even after playing more than 50 more games can not match his points scoring, and if you break that down, andrew scored 8.9 points per game to thurstons 5.6, so he is not a better attacking footballer. Andrew johns created new ways to attack, kick and read plays, thurston simply copies these methods extremely well. Thurston is a brilliant footballer, but he is not in this foot ball gods league, the above isnt bias it is fact
David
Guest
Biased in the sense johns prime was 91-98 johns first game was in 93 and was a bit part player till late 94. Didnt play origin till 95 and only played then due to super league and still played hooker till 98 at rep level, his prime probs didn't kick in till late 97. You failed to mention jts first dally m came in his first season of regular first grade . You also fail to mention that before the dally m the best player award was called the rothmans medal which was awarded till 97 when it was changed to the summons/proven medal due to the outlawing of cigarettes sponsoring sports. After which the dally m replaced this medal. Origin is not equal thurston plays in a team full of all time greats and 5 immortal candidates and has still won 5 m.o.m awards to johns 4. Yes he may play in a better team than johns did but that means he has to play better than johns had to do to win his. Add in the fact that he has won way more soo series than johns
cameron
Guest
Good argument but its too subjective.
Will W QOS
Roar Pro
Boss interested to know your thoughts on Allan Langer comparatively to these two players - taking away goal kicking it could be argued that his impact in Origin and club level is right up there? I do remember him being flown back by Bennet from Warrington and to play all over the 'best player in the world' for Qld to win Game 3 in 2001. Johns played in some Grand Final wins yes - but Langer 3 (4 if we are counting Super League season which we seem to be!). We can use stats to demonstrate how good these players were but at the end of the day unless they have dominated quality opposition it becomes laughable.
Craig
Guest
and talking him up in the media...
Radar
Guest
It seems to me that people in nsw can't contemplate the notion that a Queenslander may be the greatest of all time in a particular position....I think Thurston,Lewis and Beetson were the best in their positions...perhaps Cameron Smith....all of the other positions of all time greats would go to nsw players in my opinion...Johnny Raper would be the lock forward for example.....come up with one Queenslander in your top 13 and you might have some credibility in my eyes...bet you can't find anyone...it's difficult to get anyone from nsw to acknowledge that anyone up north is any good at the game...we can flog you for the next 10 years....and our players won't be as good as yours...I guarantee it...
matth
Guest
Didn't Johns have his brother reading his mind for most of his career?
matth
Guest
Wally Lewis' defence was on a par with Johns. Look up his tackle on O'Conner in State of Origin for example
Craig
Guest
Probably one of the most biased articles I've ever seen. "Furthermore, while JT kicked the winning field goal to win the 2015 grand final, and handling that pressure must be commended, he did miss a tough sideline conversion which would have won them the game. The best player in world should be able to make that." What the? So if El Masri kicked that goal (as he would have) it would somehow make him the best player in the world? Kicking or not kicking that goal is completely irrelevant. Johns making "the greatest clutch play ever" in the '97 grand final? On what planet is this considered the greatest clutch play ever? It was a simple draw and put someone through a hole against a tiring defence. Great game, great play, but greatest ever? It would make the top 100 clutch plays, maybe. You mentioned it but clearly didn't give it anywhere near as much value as you should have - the 97 premiership is only worth half a premiership. Yet you were happy to undermine Thurstons involvement in a legitimate premiership win in 2004. You also failed to mentioned that for the majority of Johns rep career he wasn't even good enough to secure selection in the halfback position in rep sides. Toovey, Kimmorley and others were regularly selected ahead of him. Kimmorley played 20 games for Australia and 10 for NSW in the period that Johns was playing, only a handful of these were when Johns was injured. Kimmorley was deemed the better halfback by the selectors. Over Johns' rep career he was selected out of position just as often as in it. If you look at the period from when Johns debuted at origin, to the period he retired, NSW were more successful when Johns was not selected at halfback. So apparently the greatest player in the world, yet the rep team he played for was more successful when he was not selected? Go figure. You name one game Johns dominated in at origin level, and somehow this makes him the greatest ever? What about Finch being called into the squad last minute and kicking a field goal in 2006? Is he the second greatest ever on the basis of that one performance? All that said, I think Johns was an excellent player, possibly better than Thurston. However the way you have constructed the argument is fairly average. For mine, Lockyer is better than both. Want to talk about clutch players? The best clutch player of all time IMO. However that's an argument for another day.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Hi Boss This is always a great debate over a few beers at the pub, but there is no answer and never will be. I judge a players value on analytics and video analysis and would place zero weight on awards and P'ships. The awards, especially the Golden Boot and Dally Ms are ridiculous. The GB do not even consider Origin, surely the toughest competition in the world, and the DMs are judged largely by ex players who consistently favour their ex team mates. You only have to look at some of the winners to appreciate how fanciful it is. Back to Joey and JT. Each has different strengths over each other and I have never done the comparison because I really don't want to know. I just feel privileged to be able to watch and marvel at them both.
Cadfael
Roar Guru
How many MOM awards did Johns win in Origin, four and Thurston has won five and is still playing. As you pointed out, Johns couldn't settle in at half when he was picked because there were better half backs around. Good on you for being a Knights and Joey fan. But on their respective forms, Thurston is way better.
Fairdinkum
Roar Rookie
It's always hard comparing players.I'm of the belief that JT is the best in the game now but when Lockyer was around he was.To me Joey is the better allround player, he changed the way the half played from kicking to passing & tackling.You can totally forget mom selections as they are so subjective especially from channel 9 who have their favs as well as those contracted to them & no matter how they play they just pick them anyway.Examples Burgess in 2014 grand final, 2015 grand final Milford,Morgan,Glanville & Coote were all better than JT. Most of the soo games as well where you can tell by 1/2 time from the commentators who is going to get it.If Joey was playing for Qld these day's NSW would most likely get beat by 20 points everytime because of him.The blues selectors have always had no idea(which continues to this day)when selecting teams.If they had just picked Joey at 1/2 all the time they would have one more games instead of trying to find places for Kimmorley etc.He was that good they still picked him at hooker anyway.
Heich
Guest
Without Micheal Morgan do you think JT would have won the 2015 grand Final?