Sonny Bill Williams is in a curious position. Despite numerous caps for the All Blacks and years in the NRL, he is still not considered a great player in either code.
He is rather considered someone who is striking and fleeting, a shooting star.
He stayed for two years with the Roosters rather than seriously coming back to fight for the All Blacks 12 jersey, quite possibly because he knew that Ma’a Nonu and Conrad Smith would not be separated for the 2015 World Cup with the risk that could entail, even if were desirable.
As a result he has committed wisely to spend the next four international seasons in New Zealand, in order to carve out some kind of greater status and reputation. Doubtless, he will spend 2020 at the next Olympics, perhaps in the forwards.
The question though is that in these days of 100-capped players such as Nonu, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter and Keven Mealamu, will four years be enough to fashion the legacy SBW desires, even if he is a stellar operator at 12 and wins 50 or more caps?
I would argue that in the mighty dreams of such a man it is not, and he needs to become a centurion and dominate countless entire seasons in order to sate his wishes and potential.
SBW would probably not make the All Blacks starting team after 34 playing in the centres, and might well not be fast enough anymore. It is very rare to see a centre play into their late 30s. That means the only way to extend his playing career would be to move into the forwards, when it is possible to continue into the late thirties, as someone like Brad Thorn showed.
It is also quite possible that in another lifetime where league didn’t thrive in south Auckland SBW may very well have been a Kieran Read-style fast, skilled, elusive back row player. This is precisely the way he might extend his career to the 2023 World Cup.
He is in fact only fractionally shorter than another player who endured to a similar degree in the forwards, Brad Thorn, and could almost play as a lock.
Forwards can generally play longer at the top of their game than backs, and inside backs for longer than outside backs, because they depend less on the highest level of their pace and more on power, stamina and skill. These traits are more enduring, as shown by boxers who can compete even into their forties.
In the case of SBW, someone fast enough to play 12 would be a speedy backrow runner even with a decline in velocity, and his extraordinary, almost unique kind of skill would not age at all.
The offloading ability would still be as good as ever before. He could be a quite phenomenal 8, 6 or lock until 2023 and sign off with the 2024 Olympics. Indeed, there have to be questions as to how long Brad Thorn could have continued past 38 had he been so willing.
Truly outstanding forwards can break preconceptions of longevity and often retire before their time.
At such a stage SBW would have amassed well over 100 caps, four World Cups, and three Olympics.
And then he could give boxing a run.
Lindsay Amner
Roar Guru
Thorn himself recognised that he wasn't comfortable enough with the game to do justice to the All Black jersey and he turned it down, as Sam Burgess should have done. But when switching positions there's no way that SBW could be picked in the ABs as a loosie without at least a season or two playing at a lower level in his new position. Thorn was an unbelieveably strong grafter who found loose forward too complex so shifted to lock and according to Richie McCaw he focused on three main things, pushing massively hard in scrums, winning ball jumping at the front of the lineout, and smashing people at rucks. SBW's skill set is far beyond that but it doesn't lend itself to pilfering in breakdowns, learning the link play, learning the covering lines etc of a loose forward. He couldn't do it.
winston
Guest
who plays at 12 in your world team?
Jack
Guest
Lucky What Absolute Nonsense Honestly. Just utter garbage. There are no lucky players in an All Blacks jersey for multiple matches including RWC finals. They are the best of the best in the best rugby playing nation on earth.
Jack
Guest
and yet he's made 2 RWC tournaments for the number 1 ranked side in the world Pot Hale. But YOU dont rate him, logic suggests the probably is with you and your ignorance.
Jack
Guest
He came on at half time basically in a RWC final and played a blinder including setting up the all important Nonu try. Hansen believes he's a great player. Hansen doesnt even know who you are
Jack
Guest
I think we all got it. You're clueless
Jack
Guest
He was a member of the greatest RWC winning team of all time and played a pivotal role in securing that title. He's world class. You on the other hand Antoni........
kingplaymaker
Roar Guru
Look more carefully, he has drawn three or four men for the second offload. No one can do that which is why he is famous for it. He took away so many defenders that Nonu had a huge hole to run into. If you watch the match you'll see he makes the kind of breakthrough that no one else manages before.
Derm
Roar Guru
Only he could produce an offload like that? Really??? I've seen plenty. It's Nonu that supplies the magic for that try - practically from beginning to end - in my book.
kingplaymaker
Roar Guru
SBW will join the All Blacks after the Olypmics and just signed a huge four years deal so is presumably totally committed. SBW has hardly played for long enough in a continuous span recently for it to be known if he's improving. Maybe he will improve once he starts playing regularly at 12. Burgess the problem seemed to be that his club played him in a different position from the national team so he couldn't develop quickly enough in time for the RWC.
Vhavnal
Roar Rookie
lol, yeah but the issue is that unilke conrad smith or Nonu, SBW isn't getting better, Conrad was hitting top form by the time he was 32, he still was in top form when he last played at the RWC before going to france.. Brad Thorn played 'rugby' for over 20 years, he barely rested and even went in and out of the All Blacks in a few occasions.. Robbo changed attacking rugby for England, a country which only cared about safe play and goal-kicking, he made it interesting....it allowed other attacking stars to find their place back when england only used trialled and tested players..Eddie Jones was right about Sam Burgess, he did not fail because he was poor, he failed because he did not try hard enough...Ben Teo did and now he has the chance of being a 50cap England player if he wanted too..its about commitment and right now, SBW is committed to 7's...but I do see him being named in the NZ squad in November (on merit)..and I do think his boxing career might be better than his rugby one..if he chooses..
Boomeranga
Guest
Move home to Sydney?
DCNZ
Guest
The intel is that SBW wants to be a 50 test All Black. He has about 33 caps so far yes? He will go for a Third RWC in Japan, then retire at the end of 2019, do a bit of boxing...and then ...
CUW
Guest
@ Carlos the Argie " After 2019, SBW should move into the forwards " after 2019 SONNY BILL will be in the WWE as the cousin of thr ROCk and will take down Roman Reigns :P
Antoni
Guest
Glad you got a laugh, pity you didn't get it though.
Council
Guest
I'm guessing you don't get to see much SH rugby eh bro?
Temba van Jaarsveld
Roar Rookie
He should play basketbal and join the NBA sitting on the bench until he gets a ring, followed by 11th man Cricket for NZ just in time for the next world cup, switching to synchronised swimming... by the time he hits his 40ies hopefully he would have played off the bench for every team sport in exsitence and we can all hale him as the best sportsman in the universe.
Cadfael
Roar Guru
Sonny Bill is a very good player. A great one? Maybe, in time. If he was that good, why didn't he start for the ABs in the two RWCs. In 2011, he came on at the end of the game and in 2015, he got more game time because of an injury but in both occasions, he was not in the starting lineup. Greats are players like Carter, McCaw, Fox.
Paul
Guest
I think any suggestion that beyond his usefulness in the centres (as a bench player for the AB's) that he'd be able to keep up with, let alone unseat young up comers like Ioane and Savea in the backrow; or Retallick, Tuipulotu, even Bird in lock, are at the very least ridiculous.
kingplaymaker
Roar Guru
Despite the silliness of your post it reminds me of an oddity, that some props are actually very tall, into the 190s and backrow player height. Which kind of asks the question whether some backrow players or even short locks, or even centres couldn't bulk up massively and play prop. Players tend to get typecast and put into positions early and little change goes on afterwards, but there may be far more room available to move around than is realised. Obviously some changes would have to be made very early on because of the obviously great technical difficulties of, for example, scrummaging.