Are the Wallabies the problem, or the coaching staff?

Very questionable first statement. I would argue Deans had far weaker props and centres as well as outside backs whenever Beale and O'Connor were unavailable/out of form. The latter two are also examples of his need to often blood very young inexperienced players due to many more experienced players not being up to Test level.

I have no time for Cheika. He is a bad sport and lacks grace. New Zealanders are surprised when I explain that he did not make a fortune from high fashion but cheap Chinese jeans. He was a barrow boy born with a silver spoon in his mouth and thinks he is entitled to be the world's best coach. He has many character traits similar to what the Chinese name "Little Emperors". Coincidentally he was awarded that prize last year after the greatest coach in history won the RWC by a country mile and a record score. Let's face it folks if Ben Smith hadn't been so clumsy they would have won by 2-3 more tries. It is troubling to realise that the next coach is from a similar mould; "We wuz robbed". His outburst after his side was out-classed in the $XVIII semi was far from graceful. Another spoiled little twerp. Pocock is at the core of the team's problems. He is too small for 6 or 8 and is past his use by date for 7. Hooper is the no 7 and might even make one of the Kiwi provincial teams. Scott Fardey is our best forward but can't get picked. The All Blacks might pick him ahead of Kaino because he can do hard yards and win line-outs. Why is he not selected? The back line is a mess with so many picked out of position. Mick Byrne must be wondering where he is. He had a secure job with the world's best and now is part of a coaching side that could not fry a banana.

BS Lord. You previously stated it was all McKensie's fault when he was coaching. Cheika's coup is becoming exposed.

I've been and will continue to be very critical of Cheika. But if he, Grey and Hooper don't believe these comments which they make, then they should not be there.

Like everyone I was a Cheika fan and by association a fan of Nathan Grey as defence coach after the Tahs stepped up and finally won a super rugby title.... Their initial impact on the wallabies seemed good, as often happens when a fresh coaching team comes in with fresh ideas. But how they behave in bad times is the real test. Grey says : Yeah these defensive problems can be easily fixed... Cheika says repeatedly pre match: We don't have a line out problem, we've worked on that. Post match Hooper says: yeah sure we know we are as good as these ABs, we can beat them on any given day if we get our game right. Oh really ???? What is it with Tahs/ Wallaby leaders trying to bluster and deny the obvious failures to the fans? Or are these leaders actually delusional and can't admit when they've been walloped? Compare that to Hansens calm rational analysis: We know the Wallabies will be hurting and that means they will be better this week. THe biggest problem for us is to be able to follow up a great performance with another great performance . That's the mental side and that is what we will be working on this week. Rational and accurate.

Interesting.

When Deans coached the Wallabies they were at least competitive in an era when Australian Rugby had less depth. So I put the problems down to poor coaching. Why do we persist with selecting failed players in Mumm and Simmonds or players who are past their use by date. We need rugged players such as Timani, Coleman etc. when playing the All Blacks and Springboks. Simmonds has been dropped, but for some obscure reason Mumm remains in the team he is ineffectual at test level. Quade Cooper has performed poorly in the past so lets hope that he improves tomorrow. Kerevi will add something to their attack, I feel and should have been their last week already. Foley should learn to improve his kicking in general play. The team sorely misses the attacking flair of Beale though.

Anybody who thinks the wet is a great leveller should take a look at the first Bledisloe test in Wellington in 1996 and then take their great boot out of their gob. Look out for a similar outcome on Saturday at the same place.

i think that Grey pays for Bernie's inadequacies and the selection. Hard to have a view on the quality of defence if your attack is spluttering and predictable, leading to quick turnover ball to the opposition, plus your defence has to realign with players out of their normal position (HP, Pocock), having to cover the 10/12 channel etc. huge number of points out of that 25 ppg average are given up off poor offence? i guess you could argue that Grey needs to focus on transition from defensive realignment after failure of the offence.

Peter I have never suggested the ARU or in my case QRU should or could force any school to adopt Union over league and quite frankly the manner in which you come onto this forum with your constant sniping at other people and twisting of their statements to fit an argument you wish to make purely for self aggrandisement is truely annoying and I suspect symptomatic of a weak character. In order for a sporting conference to exist there needs to be a governing body for that sport. An association of like minded individuals who whether paid or volunteers come together to assist in getting the ball rolling. That governing body exists and to date has made zero effort in encouraging state or federal education systems to adopt Union as a major part in their sporting curriculum. The powers that be within League have and do make a great effort to ensure there is exposure in their game to all and the results are obvious. I am supremely confident that if exposed to the game in equal proportions a much higher percentage of children will adopt Union. Once inter school competitions exist club participation will also increase. With regard to your comment about the number of clubs - this varies greatly in different areas plus the costs associated with joining a rugby union club are ridiculously high when compared to other sports. These factors on top of the lack of exposure to the game in our state schools mean that it is most definitely not available to all in equal measure. Lastly stop whinging about rugby being broke. If it is so broke then maybe the CEO on $700k is not performing and neither are his cronys on the board. With the right organisation volunteers can work wonders and the volunteers come from the families of those kids we need to bring into the game. Expand the game and you expand the marketability of it, those contributing to it financially and those willing to give of thier time to see it succeed.

Look out! He's behind you!! and QC returns to NZ as the Pantomime Villain :)

@PeterK I am not sure it is a question of plan. I think it's more a question of structure and culture. NickF said it himself, not sure Cheika and Larkham mix well. Well I guess that's the example of an absent Australian Rugby Culture. If only there was a common mindset with different approaches to it, but even that is lacking. So I guess that until you address this big issue, you will never have a great team. You have some players standing out, gifted with talent and skills, but strangely enough, coaches that succeeded almost everywhere (where it is possible to decide about a group culture, such as clubs, franchises and so on, and where from the bottom to the top, the culture is valued), are not capable of succeeding on the long-term with the Wallabies.For me it's definitely not a question of coaches capabilities, but of environment and players development.

Agree, At this stage of his career, MacMahon is behind Fardy and Pocock as a back rower and is a great impact utility back rower off the bench. He isn't Big enough to play 8 and neither is Pocock. Timani or McCalman are next in line for that throne. Timani is a better utility but McCalman is calmer and has the game time experience. This is all predicated on the Hooper shaped barnacle being scraped off the side of the scrum.

And I countered implying that your assessment of MacMahon is incorrect. His skills help to resolve many of the team's primary problems.

Ha chook good call. I'm actually a kiwi an ab supporter by birth right, got a oz passport too though. Lived in oz long enough to remember Michael o'connor switching to league. I love oz rugby... I love oz rugby when it lets me. I do not support the wallabies. If some of my favourite oz players have a good outing and they happen to be in a green and gold jersey at the time... so be it. Unless my oz mates are around, then the whole wallabies pack a just a bunch of cheating mongrels? ARU and gave cheks his first kick out in the international gig. They knew it and have to be prepared to let him grow into the role. He just got smashed.. Disillusioned so to speak, this has to be a good thing. Cheks gets a reality check. He is now free of some of the illusions he had when he started. Now it's about where they go from here. He's forced to be more critical and realistic about his poor squad selections, tactics , culture and again GROW as international coach. Immediate results against the ab's.,it's just not a indicator. After the EOYT may be a better time to begin the harsh judgments. Everyman and his dog seem to suggest the ARU and Oz super rugby needs an overhaul etc etc. it does. How is any of that new? I'm not going into the nuts and bolts of that one. Plenty of astute rugby minds here are on to that. World rugby needs a strong oz conference enough said from me. Reality on cheks. RC win on the record. Shortened.. Don't care. RWC final first outing.. good effort. Drop in rankings.. didn't lose to japan. Just Eddie and a bunch of booted from the rwc, HURTING and determined poms! As an ab supporter I'm going to be cheering as hard as I can for the opposition when: The Pumas get their win on. Ireland finally clinch it. Oz steal back the bledisloe. Why, because I suspect they will nothing short of epic matches! Good luck to the wallabies and their supporters see how your travelling after EOYT. You'll be right. Hope you get another hammering on Saturday though☺️? wahhhhh take your angst out on the boks and Pumas! But if you do sneak one in against us, you would have had to earn it. So kudos. @dave your right I didn't bring it up as I would have given us a few yellows for cyclical play actually. I'm not here to kick someone when they're down.

Sorta thought I said that

PeterK I disagree. Take the northern beaches in Sydney, there would be 40+ primary schools on the beaches and none of them play rugby. A few years ago we organised a gala day for all schools in area and the number that participated was better than expected. Some of the schools interested didn't have anyone that knew anything about rugby, anyone interested in looking after a team, jumpers etc. A few of us without kids at these schools helped out by coaching and organised jumpers, shorts etc through sponsorship. Sadly this only ran for two years, politics been the main reason, but it still was very successful. My local club for example picked up 30 new under 10-12 players the first year and around 20 the 2nd year. Peter the excuse kids want to play aussie rules, soccer and league is the easy way out, ''build it and they will come''

There is truth to what you say PK, but there have been players with a decent attitude and leadership skills to boot. Mowen, Horwill, Folau. Pocock all seem to fit that, and I am certain people could come up with more. Young guys coming through like Hooper, DHP, McMahon, Kerevi, Godwin etc. need to earn their stripes, but they seem of decent character who respect the opportunity to play in the Wallaby jersey and would and do, do it proud. Compare them to Coopers or Giteau's behaviour when they thought the show ought to revolve around them and their opinions. As well Hooper has not earned the right to captain or even be vice captain of the Wallaby side. This doesn't set a great precedent either. I can understand how he might get a run there in a pinch, but should never have happened on any sort of continual basis. Skelton is another who hasn't earned his spot in my view. I look at big guys like Royce Willis who set records on the indoor bike, who was a monster on the field and was always in the right position. Skelton doesn't work anywhere hard enough for mine. I think Australia while not having the depth of player that NZ does, certainly can stand up a lot more than they currently are.

Nah. He got rubbished for the losses to Samoa and, Scotland, Ireland, etc on top of not beating them. If he'd beaten all the teams he was supposed to, and just struggled against the same team everybody else does there would be little to criticize him for.

Wasn't Ledsma sacked from his last job in France?