Time for the Mick Byrne way to kick in with the Wallabies

To be specific jumbo NZ rugby made mick who he is today, not the other way around

The players Byrne Dealt with in NZ had the basic skill set taught to them along with all the other ingredients before he got to them, if anything he learnt from them what he knows now.

Yes RT turning up to training an hour early and passing and kicking the ball around with the lads was the best part of the session. Then trying out them little chip kicks and flick passes in a game of touch afterwards, yep who would of thought it was all skills training when ya love it so much.

Well I guess we can agree somewhere in the middle re Byrne/Nonu Lostintokyo as I do rate the Byrne input and would never sell the guy short. Loved by all rugby types in NZ I assure you. Not bad for an Aussie in NZ thinking about it, but then again anybody in the AB inner circle is considered above average over here. Re Smithy - As a tactical type Wayne Smith became a master analyst of back play during his time playing even more so after he retired. All the All Black backs would have received his personal tutelage at some point or other. An incredibly smart thinker. One of the main roles of Smith in the AB coaching set up is to analyse the AB's from an opposition point of view where his analysis looks at weaknesses in the AB game that an opposition can exploit. I mean in my day it was a case of gee look what they are doing and then be over run in the process. Re Byrne and the aerial skills he brought from the AFL. His influence in that area was immense and it showed. However I did hear Hanson say once last year that full credit must go to Cory Jane for the aerial development of Dagg's game, I would have thought Byrne did that but we clearly don't know all the AB facts. I am told by some of Jane's club mates in Wellington that he was a class aerial act even back when he was a Junior player so clearly local club coaches were looking at the AFL then.

So Cooper has the same skill levels as Barrett, Genia as Aaron Smith, the Locks are similar etc? So you are thinking a switch in coaching staff, gameplans, tactics etc would result in the same Wallaby side thrashing the ABs and everyone else with the same players consistently? Looks like a severe case of denial to me.

Nailed it TWAS By all accounts he was better than adequate at the ABs though

It's tactical awareness. It's not lack of skills when the defensive system has too many people shuffling and wingers defending far too much space. It's not lack of skills when the game plan doesn't involve trying to actually build pressure, create mismatches and overlaps. The game plan is essentially run over the top of the opposition. Things like passing in front of the man, etc. are much easier when you are doing it on the front foot. Playing on the front foot is easier when you are creating mismatches and therefore bending or breaking the line. Cheika and Larkham's game plans seem to rely on individual brilliance rather than a scheme designed to unlock the defence. Perhaps the basic skill level would be shown to be inadequate if this was resolved (or developed actually). But I doubt it considering there have only been isolated examples of woeful passing and poor catching by players. Put the All Blacks under pressure defensively and suddenly they will also struggle to pass in front of the man, shank kicks, etc.

Mick is too valuable a resource to hold training sessions at the micro level nation wide. The only team he will be hands-on with will be the Wallabies: if time permits, perhaps the Super Franchises pre-season, coaching the coaches. In time, and if Cheika lasts as coach, Byrne will help shape a playing style to suit the players available and coming through. If you look at our NZ game, there is something vanilla-flavoured about the style of rugby played through the country, at every level: we play the same style of running rugby with forwards and backs off-loading and backing up to keep the ball alive.. This is really evident from schoolboy rugby at every level, onto age-group teams, ITM, Super Rugby and All Blacks. It may be "boring" that there is not much "variety" available, but it's a style enjoyable to play and even more enjoyable to watch. This is why the All Blacks skill levels are what they are: it's the default playing style in NZ, with everyone buying into it, so that by the time players are identified and selected for higher honours, Hansen & Co don't have to worry about skills or fitness because players are expected to have the basic running and ball-handling skills, and to be fit. The All Blacks coaching and management group spend a lot of time going around visiting schools holding coaching clinics for the coaches and players. They've even been seen at clubs. With such a ready-made template, Hansen & Co have a test-bed to try things out. There was an interesting rumour floating around at the time that the Hurricanes were trialling a new defensive structure devised by the All Blacks coaches in the run-up to the quarter finals: true or not, the Hurricanes went through 3 matches keeping the opposition tryless. The sheer size of Australia may make it impracticable to implement a NZ-type vanilla flavour approach to a style of play. Perhaps concentrating on Queensland and NSW would be a good start..

So you think the skill levels of the ABs and the Wallabies all this time have always been the same, but it's just that the gameplan, tactics then? Okay then... 'We are losing because we cannot contain them defensively and are unable to do anything when we have the ball.' Sure sounds like lack of skills to me...?

Who cares? Anybody who considers that functioning adequately in a very good system does not mean a person will make an impact somewhere else where they do not have the same support.

Exactly. The willingess to work on them at that level has seen the AB's excel.

Absolutely. Nobody mentions that he was part of the coaching staff when the Blues were at their worst.

The difference between the All Blacks and Wallabies hasn't been the basic skill. It's been the inability for the Wallaby defensive system to shut down the All Black attacks, and the lack of any offensive structure that is able to create mismatches or overlaps. We aren't losing because the last pass is poor, or we are dropping the winning try. We are losing because we cannot contain them defensively and are unable to do anything when we have the ball. I'd love to honestly hear where Cheika and Larkham think we are going to score tries and how we are going to set that up. It seems all based on Cheika's 2014 game plan of fast ball and defence on the back foot but as soon as fast ball isn't achieved it falls apart.

Agree that we should not over rate Byrne's influence. But think about it. His pedigree is AFL. He is not going to coach in lineouts, head on defence, scrummaging or the rest. His forte is kicking and catching. If he had no influence in Nonu's kicking game I can be bowled over with a feather. Just like late on Saturday night.

I don't like to deal in rumours I just hope QW have got their shit together. The media is playing the victim game along with some explayers... but stats show how f####d up things are in Oz rugby. I don't have the answers but I sure hope somebody does overhere. Aussie fans deserve better.

You just need to read all the rubbish about the QW in the last 24 months to know this. To me it so unprecedented that a player can influence the coaching standards in Oz rugby!! I'm still loss for words how they can influence the coaching regime. Case in point Liam Gill.. wouldn't play under current management. And before you get your knickers in a twist, I'm a Gilly fan but seriously do your time prove worth... the $$ will come!

Pocock unsighted in game 1? He got 6 pilfers.

Don't quite agree. The Wallabies looked very good scoring two tries in the first 14 minutes of the first test against England (30 minutes if you include the disallowed Foley try), and certainly looked like winners. But otherwise, complete dross. More broadly, the saviour complex in the Australian game - on and off field - needs to change. There are no quick fixes, no magic players who will turn us from losers to winners. The problems are deep and structural, but also eminently solvable if the right decisions are taken.

I believe he was there as kicking coach to start with. Then upgraded to Skills coach. I think ABs excellance is a collective Starting from the grassroots Example - Damien McKensie has mist likely had very little exposure to Byrne, but still has great skill

Bring on the Boks and Pumas then!!!