Four pesky problems to prevent a GWS Giants premiership

By Josh / Expert

If you’ve taken a gander at two or three 2017 AFL predictions, or fifty, you’ll have seen a common theme this year – GWS, GWS and GWS. They are almost universally tipped to win the flag, but maybe we shouldn’t get too far ahead of ourselves.

The case in favour of the Giants is pretty simple. Let’s take a look at their likely best 22 in 2017.

GWS Giants 2017 best 22
B: Nathan Wilson, Phil Davis, Nick Haynes
HB: Heath Shaw, Adam Tomlinson, Zac Williams
C: Ryan Griffen, Stephen Coniglio, Tom Scully
HF: Brett Deledio, Jeremy Cameron, Toby Greene
F: Steve Johnson, Jonathan Patton, Devon Smith
Fol: Shane Mumford, Callan Ward, Dylan Shiel
Int: Lachie Whitfield, Josh Kelly, Rory Lobb, Jacob Hopper

Geez, that’s strong. I for one welcome our new Giant overlords. They’ve taken a side that was so impressive last year and added yet another layer of class and veteran experience in Brett Deledio.

Lachie Whitfield will miss the start of the year due to suspension, but this side has so much talent you’ll barely notice an absent No.1 pick.

The only area where the Giants look a little thin is in terms of their tall backs – I’ve picked Davis, Tomlinson and Haynes as the three talls here but it’s probably the one area of the ground that doesn’t pick itself.

Tim Mohr and Aidan Corr are the two who would be the most likely call-ups should the Giants find themselves in need, but those two have both had regular injury issues and the Giants might find themselves in a pickle if they’re not available.

That brings us to a larger issue that is the first of my potential problems for the Giants…

They lack depth
Outside of the best 22 listed above, the Giants have only eleven more players who have played AFL football. Eight of those players have played less than 50 games, four of them have played less than ten, and three of them have never played a game in orange and charcoal.

Matthew De Boer and Tendai Mzungu, picked up after being delisted from Fremantle last year, are the experienced heads who will probably be GWS’ first port of call when they need depth. One of them may well debut Round 1, keeping Lachie Whitfield’s place on the team sheet warm.

They’re experienced, hardened AFL players but there’s a reason Fremantle gave them the chop and they also have never played a match alongside any of their new teammates, so relying on them as plug-and-play depth might be a little too hopeful.

Adam Kennedy and Matthew Buntine better fit the definition of depth for GWS – Kennedy is versatile enough to help out in many areas, Buntine more specialised as a defender but can play on a few different types. They’ve played a little over 100 games for the Giants combined. Mohr and Corr, mentioned previously, have some experience too, but lack durability.

Beyond that, the Giants really struggle for experienced depth – Dawson Simpson and Tom Downie are there as ruck options, Sam Reid and Matthew Kennedy as medium forwards, and Harrison Himmelberg as a tall who could feature at either end. After them, GWS are relying on the untested.

Why so little depth? Over the past few years the 17 other clubs have been more than willing to feed on the Giants’ scraps, and now so much of the fringe of their list has departed for more opportunity. It’s a big thumbs up for their recruiting and development but it could be problematic for 2017.

Say the Giants have four to five long-term injuries, they’ll be really scraping the barrel in terms of their replacement options. The players they call upon in that scenario may not be ready to perform at the level required for premiership success.

They have become the hunted
The No.1 item on the to-do list for tactical analysts throughout the AFL this off-season would have been to work out how to stop the Giants.

They have speed across the park and they have excellent skills. Those are two things that are hard to combat. However, despite their press conference gaffes, AFL coaches are a smart bunch and they will find a way to hinder GWS’ style of play.

Consider Port Adelaide, who in 2014 came within a kick of a grand final, much as the Giants did last year. In the years since, they have been tactically found out and struggled to find a new way to win – I doubt GWS could suffer so dramatic a drop, but make no mistake, they are being targetted just as the Power were.

They rely on their veterans
Much is often made of the Giants’ domination of the draft since their inception and the amount of young talent that they have been able to pick up and develop. That’s fair enough – there has been a lot of it – but for mine what made them great in 2016 was the efforts of the mature talent they’ve recruited along the way.

Shane Mumford and Heath Shaw are the poster boys here – both are Kevin Sheedy Medal winners, and Shaw has won two All-Australian guernseys as a Giant. They are, arguably, the two most important players in the side. Historically and statistically, the Giants really struggle without Mumford in particular.

The reason we know that is because we have plenty of data on what happens when Mumford misses, because he does miss a lot. He played 23 games last year, far and away a career high, but in every other season of his life he has missed at least three games and usually more.

What are the odds that Mumford plays another full or near-full season? History says pretty low. Shaw is durable, but 31 – he’s in awesome form, but nothing can be taken for granted once you hit three-oh. Ryan Griffen, Steve Johnson and Brett Deledio are no spring chickens either.

Can anyone fill Mumford and Shaw’s game-breaking roles if they become unavailable, or their form drops off dramatically? That’s a question the Giants will hope they don’t have to answer in 2017.

Progress isn’t always linear
There’s no doubt in my mind the Giants are on the rise and destined for success. No-one out there would be so bold as to argue against that. But teams don’t just improve incrementally year after year – improvement tends to come in spurts, and sometimes there’s a slide backwards in between.

Take, for example, West Coast – they had an awesome 2015, coming from nowhere to be one of the best sides in the comp and runners-up for the year. In 2016 they had arguably more talent available on their list than the year prior, yet they fell back to the pack and disappointed their fans. Why?

Have one more look at that GWS best 22 for me. How many players there played the best season of their careers last year? By my count, about two-thirds of the team were as good or better in 2016 than they have ever been before.

A lot of Eagles had career-best 2015 seasons, but then were just kind of average in 2016. I’m talking guys like Josh Hill, or Elliot Yeo, or Sharrod Wellingham – and they’re not the only examples. As a different example, Jake Stringer’s 2015 to 2016 was a textbook break-out-then-slide-back.

Improvement doesn’t always happen at a constant rate; progress isn’t always linear. Sometimes, seemingly for no reason at all to the casual observer, players just can’t back up the great form they showed a year ago. The Giants might not be immune.

Well, there you have it – four potential roadblocks I can see in the way of a GWS premiership in 2017.

Maybe I’m just clutching at straws, but surprises of one kind or another lie in wait for us this year, I know that much for sure. That’s the great thing about footy.

Still, if I’m not tipping the Giants, you may ask, who is my flag fancy in 2017?

All will be revealed next week.

The Crowd Says:

2017-01-24T19:48:47+00:00

Paul

Guest


My thoughts as well. I can like both without needing to put any other code down. Thankfully the cross-over from the soccer tab to here is mutually respectful but the same can't be said for the reverse. Anyway, 4 reasons why GWS aren't winning a flag this year is a list that's just too short imho

2017-01-24T12:59:56+00:00

Tricky

Guest


Clutching at straws really Depth - you could argue that the other 17 teams have depth issues as well, some glaringly more so Hunted - Along with the dogs & swans I think all these 3 teams will be hunted, not just gws Veterans - for any successful team you need experienced heads, the lower teams that have similar age like say Collingwood do not have as good as "veterans" required for success LInear progress - history suggests this is true but if you consider this list then it's a big ask for history to stop this team from winning the comp And lastly the sooner or later the AFL will make it so

2017-01-24T11:19:11+00:00

Ryan Buckland

Expert


I do plan on doing some list stuff at some point before March 23, because this year's lists are fascinating in their construction.

2017-01-24T10:28:58+00:00

Raimond

Roar Guru


There is some precedent for teams falling back slightly after overachieving in the previous season, in particular Brisbane 1999-2000 & the Swans 2003-4. Both times those teams made the Prelim after missing the previous season's finals, only to drop back to a semi-final finish after that. Those teams were successful at their next tilt, but the Eagles had the same trajectory in 2011-12 and never went on; Geelong had the same trajectory also in 2004-5 but capitulated in 2006. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes longer for the Giants to reach the summit than many people expect.

2017-01-24T09:28:10+00:00

Slane

Guest


Why would such insular supporters be commenting on codes they don't care about? I can't imagine there are a lot of people who bother posting in the tabs of sports they don't enjoy. Thankfully in this country we have football of all many different varieties all year round. It's soccer, cricket and NFL season for me but that doesn't mean I'm not hanging out for the AFL to start back up.

2017-01-24T09:22:54+00:00

c

Guest


easy paul no interest in topics here

2017-01-24T09:14:09+00:00

Paul

Guest


Has anyone ever wondered why the boys from the soccer tab don't invade stories like this? Seemingly every soccer story has AFL Supporters on it sidetracking the debate? Why doesn't the same happen here?

2017-01-24T03:25:09+00:00

Perry Bridge

Guest


4 key factors - -Good run with injuries -Win the close ones -Kick straight -Win away from home The great equalizer is the first in this list - and that becomes the depth tester. Applies to all clubs equally. On paper most sides best 22 should look reasonably okay. What we often need to see is the best 30. By this - the next best 2 backs, next best 2 fwds and next best ruck/mids grouping.

2017-01-23T22:31:39+00:00

Birdman

Guest


good point Wilson - there is the little issue of making the big dance in the first place.

2017-01-23T22:12:01+00:00

Wilson

Roar Guru


If we go on past Grand Finals of Swan losing they will be luck if the make the Grand Final. Lost the 2014 Final only made it to the Semi finals in 2015 Lost the 2006 Final only made it to the Elimination Finals Lost the 1996 Final only made it to the Qualifying Finals (Elimination in the new system)

2017-01-23T22:08:37+00:00

Birdman

Guest


Quite possibly. The Swans seem to lose grannies when the expectation is on them and win them when it's not.

2017-01-23T22:06:33+00:00

Birdman

Guest


Expectation is a mountain on any team's shoulders - only the very best deal with it.

2017-01-23T22:03:05+00:00

Birdman

Guest


Yup - Typhoon Victory will clearly carry the Hawks to Clarko's fifth flag

2017-01-23T21:49:09+00:00

Birdman

Guest


good point on the midfield, Gecko. To illustrate my point about Shaw and Stevie J, I'd point to Stevie's (dumb) suspension leading into the last year's prelim. and Shaw's frustrated performance in that game under Doggies pressure, Cameron can also lose his focus and go missing when it counts.

2017-01-23T20:47:57+00:00

Swannies

Guest


Swans will win the premiership this year. They came very close last year and will get the job done in 2017.

2017-01-23T10:46:56+00:00

dave

Guest


Loved this article.Setting the bar high early in 2017. Now for my 2 cents. One year ago everyone was talking about how GWS was going to dominate for years etc and one of the reasons was because they have so much talent not getting a game.Sure a lot are just high draft picks that have little or no experience but this would be the same for all teams in the AFL.I would suggest most teams would happy to swap their untried players with GWS untried players. Everyone said they would choke in their first finals series but they didn't seem fazed at all.The prelim could have gone either way and they would have been playing Sydney for the flag. As you point out they are hunted this year and It will be a lot more difficult for them plus the building resentment of all their start up privileges even though they haven't won anything yet. Its going to be a huge test but based on their finals showing I think they will get through,Im predicting between 3rd and 7th place finish.

2017-01-23T08:47:07+00:00

Penster

Guest


Hawthorn. With this: http://makeagif.com/9ZBZKv

2017-01-23T08:44:54+00:00

Penster

Guest


Ryan could you do a stats article with a table of each club players 0 - 49, 49+ games category for 2015, 2016 2017? Very interesting stats. And I'd like fries with that.

2017-01-23T07:03:40+00:00

Ryan Buckland

Expert


The Dogs have a *slightly* younger list this year (excluding rookies), at 24.2 years of age compared to 24.3 for Sydney. On experience, the Dogs are *slightly* more experienced than the Swans; 69.9 games versus 69.4 for full lists. I've started to exclude rookies from this analysis because I think it is mostly redundant - a team will generally only turn to rookies when its full list is exhausted.

2017-01-23T06:38:34+00:00

Pumping Dougie

Roar Guru


Interesting view Antony. I'll keep an eye out on that this year. But upon checking overall performance, I note when Swans and GWS last met, Davis was awarded a score of 8 out of 10, Tippet 3 and Buddy 6. http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/sydney-v-gws-qualifying-final-player-ratings-report-card/news-story/2274166f935fd92a8b1b2da982f984e3 And when they met earlier in the season, Davis was again named in the Best Players for GWS, whilst Buddy wasn't for the Swans (Tippet got injured during the game).

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