A message to selectors: Keep keeping first

Neville should never have been dropped in the first place. It wasn't because he was a bad wicketkeeper, it was because he was deemed worse with the bat than Matty Wade. How did that work out for us?? Neville is not keeping well at the moment, so it's hard to champion his return. I still think he is the best keeper in the country but he's out of form at the moment.

No, not really. Wayne Phillips was a batsman who was considered handy with the gloves. Being able to keep was considered a lesser part of his game, and that is what we are currently doing, choosing keepers based on their batting ability rather than their keeping ability. And yes I do remember Wayne Phillips, and the dark ages of 80's Australian cricket as well. Do you?? I dare say a few people on here don't, or choose not to, based on the comments. I'm not saying Wayne was a complete mug, like giving the gloves to Phil Tufnell for example, but he was certainly not a test quality keeper. He would have made a decent go of things as a batsman, but doing both was certainly detrimental to his game. We need a specialist keeper, this is not an easy job to do.

yeah, Wade can not bat either

Interesting thing with Bancroft is that if he gets the gig, he will make it his own...to the degree that Whiteman might have to be just a batsman. I'd argue that Whiteman is the best batsman in WA after Shaun Marsh. He has had a successful graft from his hip to his knuckle and should be back batting soon but is unlikely to keep this year. With Bancroft keeping for Oz and Whiteman just batting, there might be bonuses all around.

Didn't you watch him keep to the Chinaman bowling of D'Arcy Short in the JLT?

I agree Chris, Nevill is over rated as a keeper. His glovework during his Test stint was merely ok, rather than great, and he's been sloppy behind the stumps so far in this Shield season. Nevill's reputation as a gloveman is inflated in a large part because of comparisons with the woeful keeping of Wade. Bancroft clearly kept better than Nevill in the WA v NSW game last week. That doesn't mean Bancroft should be the Test keeper but it does put into perspective the regular claims from fans that Nevill is a great keeper and Bancroft clueless.

For some time now Peter Nevill has been the best gloveman in Australia. I have a major problem with this. It's like when a fieldsman drops a catch and the commentators talk about how freaky it is that they dropped a catch because they are an awesome fieldsman, while thinking back I can remember lots of catches they've dropped, but just because in between the dropped catches they've made some freakish grabs, they get the reputation as an amazing catcher. (eg Steve Smith - seems to regularly take the freakish catches and drops the straight forward ones!) I've heard others say things like this, but the truth is Nevill makes a lot of errors. He drops catches, misses balls he should stop to give away byes, and his biggest issue - fails to even move for catches flying between keeper and first slip that are well and truly keeper catches. He does those time and time again including so far this year in the Shield. I witnessed a regulation off-break from Lyon grip and turn a bit and Nevill didn't get anything behind it and it went for byes. Totally should have been stopped. Swepson edged one that was about half a metre from his right glove and he was frozen as it flew between keeper and first slip. 1000% a keepers catch. And he's dropped a couple of pretty straightforward catches this season so far also. The point is, these so-called better keepers aren't actually keeping better. Right at the moment I would put Nevill ahead of Wade with the bat, but would probably actually put him behind Wade with the gloves! That's how many mistakes he's making. I can't imagine Bancroft, who isn't a part-time keeper, he's always been a keeper, just that he's also good enough to play purely as a batsman when it's not possible to dislodge the incumbent keeper in the team and so took that on.

Yes, and of late, Nevill has probably been the worst. I'd probably put his glovework this season below Wade. Nevill getting picked over Wade would likely be picking Nevill because he can bat better, despite making more mistakes with the gloves! I can't see Bancroft making more errors than either Wade or Nevill (can't really comment on Carey, as I haven't seen enough of him, but his batting has also been a major struggle) and Bancroft is clearly the best with the bat at the moment by a fair way!

That's largely been my point also talking about Bancroft. I haven't seen him keep all that much, but haven't seen anything to suggest he can't, and I know that with only 6 first class keeping spots, and the fact that the incumbent basically has to do pretty poorly to get dropped no matter how good other players might be, it can be hard to break into a team as a keeper, and if you are good enough to play just as a batsman and take that chance, that certainly doesn't mean you aren't a good keeper. I really worry that people keep saying things about Nevill like "it's generally accepted that he's the best pure gloveman in the country". I've heard things like that on news reports and things. Yet the facts just don't add up to that. He's dropping catches, not even moving for other catches that aren't even a big stretch away, and giving away byes for balls he totally should be stopping. I can't see that there is any evidence that Nevill would make less mistakes with the gloves than Bancroft, and right now Bancroft is clearly the pick of the keepers with the bat.

That's my big issue with Nevill. He's being talked about like choosing him is choosing a good solid keeper who won't make too many mistakes, but he seems to make them all over the place. He's dropped a couple of catches so far this season, had byes he really should have stopped, and on top of the dropped catches, there are the ones that he didn't even move for that he should have caught. (Wouldn't get put down as having dropped Swepson today, but the ball went in the air about half a metre away from his left glove and he didn't even move. Had to be his catch). In fact, I think that's his biggest weakness. From the first time he played for Australia I witnessed him not even moving to catches that were clear keepers catches between him and the first slip fieldsman. I can't come at picking Wade. He's just completely lost it. But I couldn't pick Nevill either. So if I was selecting it would have to be between Carey and Bancroft, and personally, I'd probably plump for Bancroft. Despite this only being his third first class match keeping, he is a keeper from way back, and his keeping looks as solid as any of the options, and his batting a thousand times better.

Watching back the highlights of the first day of NSW v QLD just then also there was one where Swepson edged it and it bisected keeper and first slip, no more than half a metre from Nevill's right hand, and he didn't even move for it. That's one thing I've seen from him way too often to be a top flight keeper, balls like that which are 100% clearly a keepers catch and he hasn't even moved to go for it. So it technically doesn't go down as a drop, but it's a catch he should have taken. Really, I don't see how there's any argument for Nevill as a better keeper at the moment. He makes way too many mistakes with the gloves. And his batting is certainly not enough to make up for that.

Problem is all the the keepers are making mistakes with gloves. Bancroft should be a lock!

If any of these boys kept like Phillips, you'd be right. The only one of these current candidates that keeps like Phillips is Wade. This "Wayne Phillips" argument is invalid.

Bancroft's keeping is as good as De Villiers' as is the rest of his fielding. He was first a keeper who had to become a specialist batsman because there was no keeping spot available. He is not a "part-time" keeper in the sense you are using the term. Recently he has kept in last year's Matador, this year's JLT, the Big Bash and Shield games. At the moment, he is the best keeper in Shield cricket, even before we mention batting. Nevill is making way too many errors. Carey missed a sitter stumping last game. Bancroft has kept a clean sheet including one outstanding catch diving forward. There is no risk with Bancroft. There is great risk with all the rest.

What makes you think he is? People call him a part time keeper, but as far as I can tell he is a genuine keeper, but due to the 1 wicket keeper per team thing, he couldn't make the WA team as a keeper, (which, as previously stated, doesn't even mean that the guy ahead of you is better, if the incumbent isn't doing much wrong they don't tend to get replaced, even Gilly had to move interstate to get a chance despite being much better than the guy who was ahead of him in NSW) but because he was good enough to make it as a batsman he did that, and enjoyed opening the batting. The fact that he's good enough to play as a batsman, and hasn't had a lot of opportunities to keep at first class level, doesn't automatically mean he's some part-time keeper who isn't good enough. I'm not saying he's a great keeper either. I haven't seen enough of him keeping to make that judgement, just stating that him playing most of his first class career as a batsman doesn't mean he isn't actually a really good keeper.

In the first innings of that test, Wade let through 15 byes. The Bangladesh keeper also let through 15 byes in Australia's first innings. In the second Wade let through another 15 and the Bangladesh keeper did better, only allowing through 7 or something. But overall, the net bye count between the two keepers was only something like 7-8 byes for the match. It was tough conditions and even the local keeper let through a lot of byes. Just this afternoon I watched a little of the NSW v QLD match and saw Lyon bowl a regulation off break that got some turn, beat Khawaja's edge and Nevill didn't lay a hand on it as it went for four byes. I'm not a fan of Wade, but the big issue is that we don't necessarily have a keeper in Australia who wouldn't let through byes against spinners on a turning pitch.

I'd happily give the job to Bancroft. This series will be tighter than people think. Australia have collapsed in 14 out of their 15 past tests. Cast your memory back to the last Ashes in Australia and the keeper saved our bacon from collapse with runs in every test and along with Mitch was the standard player of the series. It appears we are not going to have an old head batting at 6 so having a strong batting keeper at 7 will be vitally important. England have Bairstow keeping who dropped a few during the first year or so he was in the job but who is now excellent. They have a serious advantage over us in the lower middle order with Bairstow, Ali, Woakes.

Wade. We lost the first test against Bangladesh by 20 runs. Wade let 34 byes through. Good enough for the 100 test selectors?

Maxwell was out for 4 today.Wade wasn't much better.

Do you remember Wayne Phillips? I think at the time the keeper to replace Rod Marsh was intended to be Roger Wooley, and he was also noted for his batting, I can remember Wooley getting injured on the tour of the West Indies when he was supposed to be the keeper. I think Wayne Phillips got his break against Pakistan maybe because Wooley was out injured or because he was a left hander and Qadir had routed the AUssies in the Pakistan series. Wayne Phillips was quite decent as a keeper and Wooley who was intended to be the next one I think blundered in a Test match when he finally got fit again. The Australian team at that time was at all time low, and bowling was weak rather the Wayne Phillps keeping being the big problem.