No, seriously – the north are coming!

By Oliver Matthews / Expert

A couple of weeks ago I wrote an article that suggested that the gap between Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere rugby was closing if not closed.

I used data from matches between the top six teams from each hemisphere from two years before and two years after the 2015 World Cup, where the south demonstrated their dominance by selfishly taking all four semi-final spots.

While the article received positive feedback and certainly inspired a good amount of debate, there was one consistent piece of feedback that stood out regarding the teams included in the dataset.

For those who haven’t read the original article, the focus was on the results when these teams went head to head:

Southern Hemisphere
New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Argentina, Fiji and Samoa.

Northern Hemisphere
England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Italy and France

The British and Irish Lions tour of New Zealand was also included, and boy did that incite some debate.

(AAP Image/David Rowland)

Some of the feedback suggested it was inappropriate to include Fiji and Samoa. Many pointed out that they didn’t have their own domestic leagues or decent structures in place. The feeling of several Roarers was that including these two sides heavily skewed the data in the favour of the north.

It’s worth noting though that many of the Samoan and Fijian national players play their club rugby at some of the best clubs around the world and are exposed to top-level training, facilities, insight and competition week in week out.

Thirteen of the starting 15 Fijians who played tn their recent northern tour play in the top English or French leagues and many are also playing in the European Champions Cup or European Rugby Challenge Cup. That’s not to say that this replaces the value of a solid competitive domestic league, but let’s not kid ourselves – the Samoan and Fijian players are not stuck at second-rate clubs in third-tier rugby nations.

It’s also worth noting that the overall debate is about comparing the hemispheres. Yes, the focus has definitely been on head-to-head results between nations to create the data, but there is a broader context here that is being considered: how is each hemisphere performing as a whole.

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But it is interesting to see what happens if we do remove some of the weaker sides from both hemispheres and review the data. So here we go – two years of internationals either side of the 2015 World Cup with matches between the following sides considered with their rankings:

Southern Hemisphere
New Zealand (1), Australia (4), South Africa (6), Argentina (8)

Northern Hemisphere
England (2), Ireland (3), Scotland (5) and Wales (7)

2017
12 matches
South: three wins (25 per cent)
North: nine wins (75 per cent)

2016
20 matches
South: eight wins (40 per cent)
North: 12 wins (60 per cent)

2014
19 matches
South: 11 wins (58 per cent)
North: eight wins (42 per cent)

2013
13 matches
South: eight wins (62 per cent)
North: five wins (38 per cent)

In the discussion on the previous article many people were suggesting that one of the major points to consider is that a lot of Southern Hemisphere players and coaches are moving North and helping to improve both club rugby and international rugby. While it might be absolutely true that we’re seeing more players of Southern Hemisphere heritage turning out for Northern Hemisphere teams, it’s worth noting a couple of things.

(AAP Image/Dave Hunt)

First, France – a common destination for talented players from Southern Hemisphere countries – is not included in the above numbers. Second, it further supports the case that rugby in the north is on the charge if they are able to support domestic competitions that can attract talent from the south with the promise of bigger salaries and good quality rugby.

It’s easy to scoff and say that the north’s success owes a lot to Southern Hemisphere talent, but nowhere in the record books will there be a note that says that England’s current winning streak over Australia is all down to an Australian coach and nowhere on the Web Ellis trophy is there a footnote that explains that the holder won because French clubs were able to pay more cash to their players.

It’s also fair to say that the Southern Hemisphere teams are far from dead and buried. New Zealand are still by far and away the best rugby nation on the planet and Australia and South Africa have plenty of quality upon which to rebuild success. We’re also two years away from the big dance in Japan, where we’ll really be able to see if the north’s progress has amounted to anything.

But this past year has demonstrated in great clarity in both Australia and South Africa that the underlying structures and processes that help to grow quality rugby are broken. Without quickly fixing them both these giants of the world game are going to fall further and further behind.

Make no bones about it, the north are coming.

The Crowd Says:

2018-01-23T04:47:00+00:00

Cuw

Guest


dude dont dismiss LaRochelle and Racing : if the weather conditions turn for the better by March , both will have a very good chance. this weekend matches were played in snow. infact i missed the Munster match coz it was delayed. it was fun to watch the Racing match - in snow. Big Ben goes on a run , then is tackled and ends up sliding 5m from the tackle clearing out the snow :D

2018-01-23T04:43:09+00:00

Cuw

Guest


Sarries came thru the backdoor - thanks to Wasps beating Ulster and Chiefs going to sleep against Glasgow albeit a controversial yellow and penalty try ! and for the record : Sarries have played the Saints thrice this season and on all3 occasions have put 50+ on them :) 55:24 57:13 62:14 and Osperys despite drawing with Sarries have sacked their coach .....

2018-01-23T04:32:33+00:00

Cuw

Guest


these are just those who played this weekend. they teams are allowed to add to the squads for injured. so the squads will be named prior to the 1/4s - they will have other names too. i can think of one Clearmont Fijian - RAKA - who wants to qualify for france :D

2018-01-23T04:26:59+00:00

Cuw

Guest


so is Carizza , Isa and Lobbe :D

2018-01-23T04:26:04+00:00

Cuw

Guest


Sean Maitland is NOW Scottish - as far as i'm concerned he was a Canterbury-Crusader :D

2018-01-22T23:59:40+00:00

Rugby Fan

Roar Guru


Some selective rationales there Clarke! You want to count the recent playing record in 2007, when it suits NZ, but not in 2003, when it doesn't. Apparently, there are asterisks in the record when weakened NZ teams turn out, but not for weakened England teams. If you select any date at random, and ask who would likely win a match between NZ and England, then the record shows you should always go with the All Blacks. However, England have won matches in the past, and, with the possible exception of 2002/3 (I can't remember what the bookies were saying) have done so as underdogs. We'll never know if England would have beaten New Zealand at a World Cup in 2003 but there's a pretty good case to make for an England win, and only a more speculative one for an All Black win. If speculative cases count, then you can make one for an England win in 1991, Pretty much the same England players won a match with the Lions, and another with England in 1993. They got stage fright in the 1991 pool loss against NZ, but the desire for revenge might have tipped the scales in a later round. Probably not, but as much a speculative chance as New Zealand in 2003. You can do the same in 2007. New Zealand hammered England in the run up to the World Cup but South Africa even did it at the Cup. And yet, the England side which made the knock out stages beat Australia, France and then gave South Africa a fright. They were a different proposition from the team which started the tournament, let alone the one which lost to NZ. At the same time, the 2007 New Zealand side proved mentally fragile when the chips were down against France. It's possible that England could have pressured the All Blacks as they did Australia and France (who did beat NZ) and got the win. Not likely, but certainly possible. Just as possible as a speculative All Black win in 2003.

2018-01-22T22:51:43+00:00

ClarkeG

Guest


It's appropriate that the Bus narrows it down to Eng because in those WCs he talks of where NZ "did not stay in the tournament long enough to be knocked out by a NH team" only England (of the Home Unions i.e.) would have had the opportunity to defeat them if they had progressed in those tournaments.(1991,2003,2007). "You think you’d have beaten England in 2003"?...well certainly not after the semi but prior to the tournament...why not? NZ had lost twice to Eng in 12 months previously by a collective total of 5 points...the first at Twickenham with 7 players making debuts. Had NZ defeated Eng in each of the 3 previous WCs...yes they had. 1991...would NZ have defeated Eng in final after defeating them in the Pool. 2007...would NZ have defeated Eng in semi...they "hammered" them at Twickenham less than 12 months before.

2018-01-22T19:28:41+00:00

taylorman

Guest


Geez, gotta be a 1000 test caps in that lot. Perhaps propping up was a bit light?

2018-01-22T19:27:08+00:00

taylorman

Guest


There are rumours around kaino, and in this area , rumours are usually correct.

2018-01-22T18:58:17+00:00

Harry Jones

Expert


Your Blues have looked serene But Sarries could go on a rampage!!! Or bomb out ...

2018-01-22T18:12:04+00:00

Derm

Roar Guru


Which is which, Harry? ?

2018-01-22T16:40:13+00:00

Derm

Roar Guru


That would be Scót O' Fardaigh. Unfortunately, he's going at end of next season - not allowed renew foreigners.

2018-01-22T14:39:15+00:00

Harry Jones

Expert


Wild Talent & Volatility versus the Most Steady Team in the comp

2018-01-22T11:48:13+00:00

David

Guest


And Marcelo Bosch is of course Argentinian, so not part of the Australia, NZ and SA exodus either.

2018-01-22T11:28:54+00:00

David

Guest


Of course Tman thinks that, Fun Bus. He’d probably be wrong, but he certainly thinks that.

2018-01-22T10:57:50+00:00

UKKiwi

Guest


It all got a bit Dr Seuss there for a minute!

2018-01-22T09:08:15+00:00

Cuw

Guest


perhaps ur right - 2013 is a long time ago ...

2018-01-22T08:28:07+00:00

ClarkeG

Guest


Not sure that is correct Cuw. I think Clarke had already joined Connacht by the time Symons come along.

2018-01-22T08:20:07+00:00

FunBus

Roar Rookie


Leinster v Saracens will be an absolute cracker.

2018-01-22T08:11:24+00:00

FunBus

Roar Rookie


You think you’d have beaten England in 2003, despite losing to them twice in the previous 12 months and being hammered by the Aussies?

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