Demons 'move on' from training camp revolt

I would be more concerned why the leadership group was unaware of the player concern about the camp. This must demonstrate a lack of confidence in the leadership group. Goodwin needs to address this issue immediately as it smells of discontent with some players and lack of team cohesion.

I've scratched Melbourne from my top 8 for this year. How incredibly soft. Camps like that galvanise the team and teach them some fortitude. These blokes have no fortitude. They will cop it on the field all year, and deservedly so.

Gee sorry Pasta Bob - I am sure we have all missed your valuable insights, if I could only remember you ever being here before.

Melbourne has been in the wilderness for a long time. As one of their foes, I hope to see them there for many more years to come. I somehow doubt that and think that they are work in progress. They always get a handsome deal from the men in white, especially in front of goal. Any Collingwood old-timer would back me up on that. The training regime put forward was slightly over the top by today's standards but would have created a sense of tenacity and instilled a killer instinct had it been implemented. The mistake the Melbourne heirarchy did was to announce the program in advance. They should have just taken them there...period!

Birdman - "because Clarko never stands still" exactly the game moves on. "the players forged by Kokoda before 2011 made the core of that very successful side for many years" And how many are left now? Not many and still on 12 players have been since and none this year. "no need to repeat the dose too often." This is a very important point, the Hawthorn players came out of Kokoda inspired (because Kokoda wasn't about physical exhaustion but bonding & education) whereas the Melbourne players came out of their SAS camp just stuffed. Hawthorns trip started a dynasty, Melbourne's saw them choke in the final rounds to miss finals. Yet Hawthorn didn't feel the need to send the same players back to the well again and again, you just sent the knew recruits so they could find the same inspiration where as Melbourne want to repeat the dose immediately. In short the Kokoda and SAS camp are vastly different and Clarkson is a much better coach than Goodwin.

because Clarko never stands still and because the players forged by Kokoda before 2011 made the core of that very successful side for many years so no need to repeat the dose too often.

So the only way to get a mental edge is to do an SAS 2 day camp? Why didn't it work last year?

Interesing point Col - more evidence of Melbourne being out of sync.

On "mental toughness" and appropriate training techniques for the times - Wayne Harmes told a story of Barrassi running them to the point of exhaustion and beyond in pre-season and one day Harmes collapsed on the field, Barrassi stood over him calling him a weak p...k and all other sorts of profanities, Harmes tried to drag himself to his feet and immediately collapsed again where by Barrassi told him to f..k off and he was escorted off the ground by the trainers. Harmes said because of that training style they knew they were fitter than other teams ("mentally tough") but would a coach still had a job if he employed that strategy today?

Slane, Bellamy usually only takes the new recruits on the camps to measure their mental toughness. The whole squad do not go and most players only do the camp once.

Cat - once again you miss the point. You don't need to go on a SAS camp to obtain "mental toughness" - Cam Ling didn't, Joel Selwood didn't. I have repeatedly asked when the last time Geelong did one and you have refused to answer. So yes all athletes have to be mentally tough but there is no point in obtaining mental toughness at the expense of the physical ability to compete, especially in such a demanding sport as AFL. When Melbourne players are reporting significant weight & muscle loss, reversing weeks of hard work to supposed get "mentally tough" (and didn't it work a treat for them in 2017) the price is simply too high,

I daresay that's pretty accurate

And this year it was only a two day camp. So missing one night of sleep. Hardly going to be the reason they lose a game in a six months time. However having a mental edge might be the difference in winning it.

Slane - NRL is hardly cutting edge in anything (you only need to look at the numerous scandals each year to realise that), the idea they are still using outdated "harden up" trinaing techniques hardly surprises and could you point to the NFL and Premier league soccer clubs doing boot camps like Melbourne - I have serious doubts clubs would risk players earning that sort of money on an SAS training camp. But again - 3 things, why aren't any other AFL clubs currently doing what Melbourne did last year and there is a difference between a tough "boot camp" style program and what Melbourne did and what is it that can be done at an SAS camp that can't be replicated in a normal training camp? "The coach obviously thought two days of physical torture and mental resiliance training would be better." Yet when presented with the counter argument from the players and the AFLPA he folded, seems he doesn't have much "mental resilience".

Mental toughness is mental toughness. To say it doesn't apply because AFL is different to NRL or Gridiron or any sport is non sequitur. All athletes, regardless of sport have to be able to mentally push their bodies further than the average person, elite sports players push even further than 'regular' athletes. Mental conditioning is as important as muscle building. The number of players remembered for being able to get more from their bodies despite seemingly limited natural gifts is legion. I always think back to Cam Ling at the Cats. He wasn't fast. He wasn't renowned as being the most natural footballer or the most physically gifted. When he ran he turned beet red and looked like his head might explode but he never quit, he pushed and pushed and pushed past the limits of his body because mentally he was as tough as a cats head.

Birdman - as I have repetedly said there is a massive difference between what the Hawks did on Kokoda and what the Demons were doing, even in terms of timing of the trip. And again the Hawks have taken just 1 trip consisting of 12 players to Kokoda since 2011 - if it was such an important and beneficial part of their program why is that?

Slane - last year some of the Melbourne players had just 30 minutes sleep in 3 days (that is sleep deprivation) - again there is a clear distinction between "boot camp" style camps and what the demons players did.

worth a read Macca https://www.playersvoice.com.au/luke-hodge-kokoda-trip-that-changed-hawthorn/#AUkqJjkTHc9mWq44.97

Of course. Australian Rules is a completely unique and isolated sport that does things their own way. The things that work in the AFL are the things that teams are currently doing. No possible way they can learn anything from teams in the MLB, NRL, NHL, NFL or numerous soccer clubs. These 'boot camp' style training camps exist for a reason. You might think 2 days of match simulation is what will help the Demons. The coach obviously thought two days of physical torture and mental resiliance training would be better.

Yes is does. And missing one nights sleep like Melbourne were going to is hardly sleep deprivation.