Please stop dehumanising Hannah Mouncey

My name is Kirsti Miller formerly Warren Miller I send you this email as I have grave concerns with the current transgender sports participation guidelines in particular with the guidelines in high impact sports such as AFL Football. I am a former duel international male athlete having represented Australia at many world championships and Pan American Games in the sports of Modern Pentathlon and Aquathon. I am also a former first grade rugby league player with Wagga Brothers, I was an inaugural inductee in the Wagga Wagga Sporting Hall Of Fame I was the only inductee inducted for multiple sports being swimming, Modern Pentathlon and Aquathon. I was inducted alongside other Australian Sports Legends such as Mortimer, Sterling, Arthur Summons, Wayne Carey, Paul Kelly, Mark Taylor and Michael Slater. In 2013 I became the first fully transitioned woman to play women’s AFL Football at any level in Australia out here in Broken Hill. I commenced my transition back in the year 2000 at the time I was the local Governor of the Broken Hill Correctional Centre. I underwent gender surgery in 2006 also having my birth certificate amended to female in 2006. There has been a lot of controversy with transgender participation in sports in recent times in particular with the stories of Laurel Hubbard the Nz transitioned weightlifter and also Hannah Mouncey the former male international handball player and women’s Aussie Rules Football Player. There has also been much misinformed information reported in recent times from both the media and also by Hannah Mouncey herself, these people are deers in the headlights in this conversation. I am a long time transgender sports advocate and educator in diversity and inclusion in sports. I am heavily involved in global discussions and also discussions within Australia re developing an updated trans sports participation guidelines. Not many people are aware that the new IOC Guidelines that were released prior to the Rio Olympics were developed in 1/2 a day by 90 sports officials without science. These policies were developed as a hip response to lesson liability in the divisional court in Toronto Canada in the human rights case of Canadian Transitioned Female Cyclist Kristen Worley’s historic human rights victory. The current IOC policy removed the the requirement of trans females having to have had gender surgery as a prerequisite to compete and they also introduced a policy of trans women having to have a level of endogenous testosterone Of below 10nmols per litre of blood at least 12 months prior to there first competition in the female category. The advantage with this new policy has without doubt tipped the advantage in the favour of transgender athletes and in high impact sports it has cause a definite health and safety risk to biologically born females. What concerns me is that our competitors are being harshly criticised for objecting to this new policy or even for having their concerns voiced political correctness is rife in this conversation unfortunately. There are many factors other then increased testosterone levels that significantly affect the competitive edge in sport such as nutrition,age,height, weight,access to coaching and training facilities, & other genetic and biological variations like oxygen-carrying capacity. For a person transitioning from XY male to XY female we need to be able to show how we have minimised our strength & endurance by 10 to 12% the estimated performance difference between males and females across most sports that rely on endurance & strength. Up until puberty age there is very little performance difference between the sexes experiencing a male puberty is where the difference in males & females in endurance and strength becomes evident, @Scienceofsport explains this better then anyone I have heard before. To enable XY females to gain some credibility in sports we need to identify measurable quantities that can show all stakeholders how we have minimised this advantage of experiencing a male puberty and living years with a male endocrine system. Some of the measurable quantities I suggest could be screening pre transition V02 Oxygen levels, muscle mass , testosterone levels, bone density and BMI’s. We need the criteria to compete to be clear for both the transitioning athlete & our competitors. This hopefully would minimise transitioning athletes having to defend the right to compete each time they play sport & it would show our competition in measurable terms what the criteria is to compete, and when and how the criteria has been met. Our competition also face criticism unfairly when they question the rights of transitioning athletes competing this would be minimised with clearer and measurable quantities within trans participation policies. For XX female to XX male athletes minimising performance is not seen necessary although I do have concerns this may be the case in the future with XX males being able to super dope unrestricted. XX females transitioning to XX males do not have to undergo a hysterectomy (removal of the womb and ovaries), but a gonadectomy (removal of testicles) is carried out on XY males transitioning to XY females. What this means, in effect, is that XX males do not have the main testosterone-producing organ in their body removed, but XY females do. Sport has put forward the idea that transitioning from one sex to the other is the same process. The XY female’s body is broken down into a post-menopausal state and the complications that come with that. The XX male gets juiced, and goes into a hyper state due to their known biological sensitivity to androgens. You see them in football, in bodybuilding, in all the big muscle sports doing exceptionally well, because they are taking these high levels of testosterone that are completely unregulated. They never bring XX males back into a state of lower values after they have gone through transition. They just stick to those higher levels. Chris Mossier could not be competing the way that he competes as a biathlete without those really high levels of testosterone. Mack Beggs is a hyper-doping athlete competing in sport who is outperforming other female athletes. People should be complaining because it’s clearly doping. Chris Mossier , Beggs and others have been getting away with it and this is the problem with what the IOC has done. It has solely focused on the male/female social model, but has never done the necessary homework. The science actually opposes the IOC’s international policy. With XY females fully transitioned I believe creating a fair inclusionpolicy could be achieved now, XY women (fully transitioned) are the only athletes competing unhealthy in a complete androgen deprivation state and well beyond a (post menopause state). Incredibly unhealthy and spore eventually becomes impossible as the body deteriorates as it cannot respond to day-to-day functions without androgens as the bodies primary communications and regulator hormone. Moreover and important, the XY transitioned female is the only body that can show the health and key markers where the body turns on then off, as the body loses its ability to regulate androgens. Which then causes complete androgen deprivation of the human body, heavily contraindicates it as testosterone plays over 200 functions in the body every single day separate of the sex of the physiology. A transitioning XY Female (pre op)are hypgonatic, not feeling full effects of complete androgen deprivation and plus 2 dozen contraindications because they still have gonads. If they were a HP athlete prior and during continued transition minimising the advantage in women's competition takes even longer years longer. A pre op XY female still has a male endocrine system all it takes is for the transitioning athlete is to not take their androgens blockers for a day and testosterone production will recommence. A transitioning (pre op) XY Female effectively has the equivalent of a fully loaded syringe of testosterone at her disposal. As Hannah Mouncey states in a recent article she only had to provide her initial testosterone levels with no follow up tests very easy to manipulate testosterone levels. At the elite level of sport & also in high impact sports this is a grave concern. A transitioning XY female athlete could take just enough testosterone blockers to maintain a testosterone level at just under 10nmols very easily with manipulating her medication, almost impossible to police. The truth in this conversation needs to hit mainstream media the integrity of women’s sport is to important for it not to be.

The Olympic Transgender Guidelines are not based on science they were a hip response to lesson liability in the divisional court in Toronto Canada during transitioned womens HR victory. http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/transgender-guidelines-sports-attempt-to-dead-cat-a-debate-on-gender/ The current blanket 12 months of reduced testosterone levels does not minimise the advantage for all transitioning women some like me took years many years to feminise, like Hannah I represented Australia as a male myself in two sports. It takes a minimum of 2 years to get the full feminisation results from HRT with many factors slowing the process down such as the longer after puberty you start HRT the longer it takes also being a high performance athlete pre, during & after transition slows the process down. Attacking the player is not the way to go questioning the policy is totally acceptable. All stakeholders need to be able to express their concerns in this conversation without being called a bigot. Aussie Rules Football is an extremely high impact sport nothing like any Olympic Event. Current IOC guidelines are only a minimum criteria to meet within these guidelines a case by case consideration can be used if there are doubts the transitioning athlete has minimised her Advantage, in Hannah’s case being a HP Male athlete pre and during her transition also the age she transitioned at & also without a doubt Hannah is a big girl she was a big guy prior to her transition. There is no doubt experiencing a male puberty & living many years with male androgen levels gives a physical advantage in strength & endurance. The advantage can be minimised it took me approx 13year for me to feminise, I explain this in this interview. https://omny.fm/shows/sportsday/transgender-athlete-kirsty-miller For future policy development there needs to be more measurable criteria to be met to show the advantage has been minimised such as pre transition VO2 oxygen levels, muscle mass, BMI & bone density also always a case by case consideration should always be used. As I said previously attack the policy as much as you want but leave the player alone. I want acceptance for transitioning athletes but not with compromising the integrity of women’s sport. I suggest erring on the side of caution, this is a good article explaining the sciences. http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/sports-longest-injustice-scheduled-demolition/

When I last checked it depends on your chromosomes that will determine if your a bloke or a sheila. Hannah is a biologically a bloke and so should be playing with them. Its called fairness so that a bloke doesn't have an unfair competitiveness advantage over the sheilas!

street weight of course mate, but still, those girls have do get doctors check before and after weigh in

Its not the point though.

For your discussion: 1 - Its not fair for woman - She can play in the "open section", i.e. the Mens. 2 - We are still waiting for a FTM to make in the Men's section... 3 - Can female athletes take steroids for years, then stop, till their testosterone is at the IOCs level and start playing? 4 - Subject of this article has had no gender reassignment - she takes 4 pills a day. If she stops taking them? 5 - Can female athletes take Estrogen blockers? Can males take the four pills a day, and play in AFLW as long as they agree their gender is socially constructed? 6 In the UFC, Fallon Fox identified as female, she hospitalized Tamikka Brents. In fact Brents needs to have staples to hold her head together, and had broken bones

Hannah didn't run top-3 in the Ainslie best and fairest as a 28yo. She is no guarantee to do well in the VFLW let alone get recruited the AFLW. All this hot air could amount to very very little in the end.

I wish I could "like" you post. I agree with everything you said except for the Castar Semaya comment. Yes, the IOC, CAS and IAAF has done analysis and testing and Hannah meets their requirements so she should be able to play. But I think you will find that Castar's testosterone level is much higher than that which you quoted in your comment of 10 nmol so while I think Hannah should be able to play I think that Castar should not without treatment to lower her testosterone.

She certainly wouldn't be running around a football field ... more likely to been seen in the drive through at Maccas

Thank you Matt, from everyone of us in Hannah's position or the families and friends of people born with this condition. Your article is compassionate, decent and sadly necessary. No doubt you'll be attacked but please know there are many of us out here thankful for your words.

It is a good argument, but like all emotive issues, the science long ago stopped being the relevant factor. The fact they’ve let her play in a non-televised competition without any real qualms I think is the main illustration of what the argument was about. It’s all about perception. I think in this instance the legalities are outpacing society. As others have said, a lot of people aren’t ready to see someone who identifies as a woman but looks like a bloke crashing into women who identify and look like women. That’s the commercial reality of it. What if Hannah isn’t the only guy? What if AFLW clubs all go out and start recruiting a large trans woman specifically for their unnatural physical advantages and height – again, much as they have done in shaking some of these 7 footers out of the American college system. Society can handle Aaron Sandilands crashing into Caleb Daniel, or ironing out Phil Davis. But if you can’t even acknowledge the perception problems of having Hannah crash into other ladies, and focus purely on a non-emotive scientific argument, I think you’re being disingenuous and run the risk of being labelled high-handed or cavalier in trying to force this issue through. Inherent physical differences means that a woman would never be able to compete in an elite men’s competition, certainly not on level pegging. But if it starts going the other way, and Hannah is just the first of a few, you have to start wondering what was the point in setting up a competition for women if it’s just turning into a second chance saloon for recycled blokes with gender dysmorphia. I mean it’s not exactly pitching to the mainstream grassroots, is it.

1. The ways we frame gender identity are important. People don’t choose their gender identity. It’s innate. And inalienable. The growing consensus at the moment is that it is caused by fetal exposure of the brain to hormonal imbalances in utero during the second trimester. Lab researchers have been able to adjust hormonal levels in the womb of lab mice and cause them to exhibit lifelong behaviours of a mouse of the opposite sex. You don’t ‘choose’ your gender identity any more than you choose your sexuality. I didn't choose to be male. If tomorrow I decided to identify as a female then that's 100% my choice. I think people are suggestible and predisposed due to environment. A lot of men engage in homosexual sex in prison despite never previously being homosexual. 2. Trans people want sport to be fair for everyone too, and we do need to have these debates. I am a distance runner. Competing in the men’s division, I was placing in the top 8% at city majors. Despite training harder than ever, my body changed with several years of hormones. My lean muscle mass halved, my body fat percentage lifted, my blood composition altered, even my mental focus changed. When I finally switched to the women’s division, I never placed higher than the top 13th percentile. Yet immediately, I was accused of cheating, was spat on, and abused. No-one should have to suffer through that. Very unfortunate. 3. If you think height is a cause of unfair advantage, then can you please advise what is the upper height limit we restrict female athletes to? There are two other players in AFLW who are taller than Hannah – will you be telling them that they can’t play because of their height? Why about intersex athletes like Castar Semaya? Are they banned from participating in sport too? Usually there's some kind of offset to being tall like Sandilands -- you can't run, can't kick properly. Perkins is a massive unit for Adelaide. Sure she's heavy, but she's heavy because she's overweight. That poor mobility, poor cardio. Mouncey is the same height and weight of Wayne Carey and was a male until recently. She's the optimum size for a male football. For a female footballer she's basically the LeBron James of AFLW. It's unfair to genetic females who have hope of ever attaining that body size naturally.

Quite simply the best post on this subject across multiple articles. Well articulated.

164cm and 74kg is a BMI of 29. 26-29 is slightly overweight. 30 is overweight. If you're BMI is 30 alarm bells should be ringing. A woman shouldn't be that big at 164cm.

Yes, the AFL played the same weak role. They let the bigots to run riot unchallenged. All the best to Hannah in the future.

Big J are talking about about when they dehydrate the hell out of themselves 'to make weight' or their actual 'street weight' when they gain 10 or more kg after weigh in? Joanna Jedrzejczyk (former UFC Straw weight Champion) admitted having to cut 16 lbs (7.26 kg) in the 14 hours prior to UFC 217 weigh-ins.

Anon cherry picking and stretching data to try and suit his case? Never

This isn’t boxing now is it? There is no weight cut the day before. AFL players don’t all have to be the same weight the day before a game. AFL players don’t gain 5-10kg immediately after weighing in either. Silly comparison.

This isn't boxing now is it? There is no weigh in the day before an AFL game where all competitors have to be in the same very narrow weight range. AFL players don't sit in saunas for 20 hours and dehydrate the heck out of themselves to 'get under weight' only to balloon back many kilos immediately after.

There are some plus 20kg and plus 20cm differences in AFL. I'm pointing out that Anon has picked a particular tiny and uncommon female comparison.