Wallabies player ratings vs Italy

Extremely well argued reply CB2 and it was remiss of me not to clarify the vitriol I am particularly offended by is that directed at the players or the coach not other Roarers. Roarers set themselves up for robust and sometimes vitriolic responses by throwing their views to the wind. Players play and coaches coach and even if you feel they are not up to the job, the analytical approach as exemplified by Nick Bishop is the high water mark for objectivity and persuasiveness. Maybe I was also to subtle in my argument that the variations of mean from mode shows that indeed whilst the median scores are nearly always fair summaries of the relative performances of the players it is the variations in scores that indicate agendas. I also was not suggesting that the variation was conspiratorial other than the loudest mouths are often the most exercised to give a 10 or a 0.

Who are these "really good players" Brad? Seems like you've got one or two - Pocock and maybe Genia, but as for the rest.....it seems that the cupboard is bare. Leave out the players recruited from the Pacific and you've got nothing at all. What has happened to Australian rugby? Wasn't there a book published not too long ago with the title, "The Rise and Rise of Australian Rugby"? By the way, I take no pleasure in the present situation. It's sad, really.

Actually SS, this isn't a sophisticated polling system. The data is really relatively straight-forward in that it suggests that most voters believed Samu Kerevi was Australia's best player on the weekend, Bernard Foley was our worst and the rest of the team fit in somewhere in between. Individuals or small groups "running agendas" will be comprehensively diluted by "The Roar" of the crowd. But even "small groups" would require some form of covert collaboration to warrant a coordinated agenda effort. In practice, commentators views are overt, and my assumption is that most of us don't know or contact each other outside of this forum. By comparison, large groups of people voting the same way, represent a trend, based upon a common view. That's not an "agenda", that's public opinion. Indeed, attempting to label a commonly held view which departs from your own individual opinion, is in itself, an agenda. The wildly ironic part of your self indulgent diatribe is the declaration that: "Arguments are way more persuasive when they are absent vitriol." Bearing in mind, this is the sentence that follows such "persuasive" pearls as: "...done-nothing armchair warriors...charmless at best and boring at worst". You epitomise what you decry. Well this Loudmouth, drug-addled pub-starved supporter can confirm that "everyone who played on Saturday is better than [me]." At rugby at least. I can similarly confirm that that fact has SFA relevance to posting comments on The Roar.

SS I think you misinterpret what the player ratings are inate of? They are not judging a players performance over a career they are judging performance over a game. Hence if Owen Farrell for example slots 7/7 goals, scores a try and nails people in defence then he’s likely to get a 9/10 vote. And if Bernard Foley shoots 2/7, puts a pass behind his outside back to leave a 14 point turnaround and is generally soft in defence, he’s likely to get a 2/10. People play poorly in different games and against different opponents just as they play spectacularly against others, the key is objectivness.

I am not moderating I am pointing out that just because you can doesn't mean you should. I am also pointing to the data that suggests too many on here are running agendas where they see no shades of grey. This informs the scores we see in player ratings. If you are one of those you would be as hopeless a selector as you say Cheika is because in a real world no one is a 10 out of 10 and no one is a 2 out of 10 either. Arguments are way more persuasive when they are absent vitriol. The commentators who are shouting "look at me" don't actually want to be influential they just want to see themselves in print as if they have some relevance. They don't, and they are boring. If you want to actually make a change think about being persuasive rather than offensive.

Actually, about the bucks, you've raised a good point Kiwikrs. One of the things that irks me about Pocock was the sizable retainer he enjoyed while he took a year off to find himself. Surely if you're really cherish the Wallaby jersey you don't need to be paid to come back and play for your country. That cash could have helped some up and comers...grassroots and all that stuff.

We all chat about the backs Until we start to dominate from 1 to 8 against ALL teams it us difficult for the Pretty Boys. More effort needs to be exerted up front.

Crashy, you must have missed Hooper's try saving tackle in the first half. The sort of cover tackle a seven is meant to make. The sort of tackle your idol Poey never makes. Yes, Pocock is great over the ball but you must agree he does go missing in cover defence. And his attacking highlights are so rare that they are memorable...as you've demonstrated. I was glad to see Simon Poidevin in the press today concurring with me in support of Hooper and how the rest of the pack need to liven up. Poido probably knows a thing or two about back row play. I'm guessing you're a frustrated old centre going by your handle but if you think a left to right bullet pass or a no-brainer running line are remarkable traits for a Wallaby then you must have fairly low standards. Maybe there's a spot for you in Cheika's coaching crew.

Yeah Thugby, Scott-Young had a great NRC campaign after improving for the Reds this year. I’d say it this stage he is still behind the likes of Dempsey and Cottrell but I think he has great potential. Liam Wright is also moving ahead in leaps and bounds. If Qld can hold onto those two as well as Timu, they are going to be looking alright over the next couple of seasons.

“We really should have been developing another 10 option over the last 12 months.” Yes, or another 3 over the last 4 years. Cheika has made the same mistake that we made in 2007, when we relied on one 10 too much. We went there relying on Larkham without developing an alternative. Larkham went down, (he was running on tired legs then), and so did we. Our attack should have been orchestrated by Foley, Cooper, as well as a Stewart or a Maddocks type over the last 4 years. Instead Bernard has played every minute and is now burnt out and possibly ‘not happy with his play’.

Your backline is very similar too the one I would pick,I would only make 2 changes,AAC at 12 just too add variety,Kerevi and kuridrani are very similar and I would have Barnes at 10,have watched barnes play especially under Robbie Deans he is faultless and at 32 he can still do the job at test level,larkam,Carter,Catt,conrad Smith can name many more had good RWC displays in there thirties.

If I had to pick between the 3 Qld scrum halves, TT, I’d plump for Sorovi. I think he has great instincts and the most potential for growth. Totally subjective of course, but I’m hoping he has a breakout year with the Reds in 2019.

Hilly, sorry mate the other back-rower J.Dempsey did 14 tackles (he missed one but slowed the bloke down <>) in his 59 mins. D.Pocock did 5 tackles in his 50 minutes. Amazingly in player comparisons on the RA site, Pocock is awarded 1 turnover won whereas Hooper is awarded 5. ESPN stats doesn't give turnovers won. Have we self-appointed experts got it all wrong or are they counting strips/dropped ball as turnovers? :( Izzy Folau needs to clean up his act. He turned the ball over 4 times, certainly 1 crazy pass and he got rucked another time.

Or potentially more KK. Depending upon the pub, and the amount of time you’d spent in it.

Nice squad there KK, with loads of talent and rugby nous. One other name that really has impressed me at the back end of this season is the Reds blindside flanker Angus Scott-Young. Only 21 and has the heart of a lion. Similar height but not as good as Ned Hanigan in the lineouts, however ASY is a far more effective overall player.

Nicely said CB2, perhaps mildly sarcastic but a nice comparison of two 7's. :)

Phil, Tate McDermott is a reserve half back for the Qld Reds, played 8 games (starter or reserve) for them in SR2018. He has only just turned 20, needs a bit more weight and is behind James Tuttle and fighting with Moses Sorovi to get game time. He has also played for Queensland Country in the last two NRC competitions. Queensland's biggest problem is their halves.

Agreed there Pine, I still have reservations of AAC at this level as (a) he is not the fastest these days and (b) England backline is a different story to Italy. Personally I would not be too unhappy to see AAC and J.Petaia swap positions during some attacks. As you know he can seriously do damage and it never hurts to confuse the Poms with a different point/style of attack. M.Cheika will never do it but he has to punt both B.Foley and K.Beale from the starters. Both are out of form and as you show there are better options with a M.Toomua, S/Kerevi and AAC in midfield and J.Petaia/S.Naivalu/T.Banks on the wings. All decent defenders, no need to shuffle around in defence and speed out wide. What's not to like about it? England are starting to get a pretty decent backrow going now in the forwards. M.Wilson, S.Underhill, B.Shields and T.Curry are, dare I say it, a better unit than the Pooper with J.Dempsey/N.Hanigan. The tight 5 should do OK though S.Sio has been a worry in set pieces. The only optimism I can offer there is England has missed an extraordinary number of tackles in their last 3 matches, though only lowly Japan has managed more than one try against them. A good fast-paced WB backline such as yours or mine above could seriously dent that record. Over to you, Mr. Cheika. :)

CB2 I definitely consider this a safe space to converse under the influence! If everyone on here only commented things they’d actually be willing to convey to other punters down at the local then there would certainly be a lot less whining????

Well thank goodness you are here to moderate SS. Of course all ubiquitous Australian rugby blogs should be the exclusive domain of Wallabies or ex-Wallabies. Nothing Australian Rugby needs more than an online version of the Fox Sports rugby commentary team. We'd certainly be in good hands accepting only the far-reaching and inclusive opinions of Greg Martin and Phil Kearns without question or amendment. And yet once again, any opinion on a player that differs from ones own staunchly held logic is obviously "hate" while any approach other than that ratified by ones own perspective is clearly drug-induced. Is there a lazier argument mistaken for coherence anywhere? If you are also a "done-nothing armchair warrior", you fit neatly into the rage that seems to be grinding your machine. And if you are a current or ex-Wallaby, just give Marto a call and book a slot on Kick & Chase it's a far bigger, well funded and acknowledged platform populated by the rugby bourgeois that you seem to identify with. I'm sure the editors of The Roar don't want it's readership changed to include only professional rugby players. Perhaps check out the mandate of the interest site to which you wish to limit contributions before taking out the Gatling Gun. It's the digital age Champion. Consider this the digital pub. Given some of the contributions, I suspect many even post drunk if it makes you any more comfortable.