UPDATE: SANZAAR says they're "disappointed" over Nations Championship axing

Agree with most of that Melburnian. Whatever about the richer 10 nations, I think the Tier 2 nations should be getting a slice of any away test matches - starting from today. No need to wait for 2022. And a greater share of the RWC revenues could also be allocated to the Tier 2 unions. To ensure that players are recompensed fairly, a portion of the gate revenues could be used to pay the players directly as part of the traveling costs for Tier 2 teams. Imagine if Fiji or Samoa test players were guaranteed to get €5 - 7,000 in match fees each? Some of the French clubs incentivize PI players not to play in RWC. Put money in their pocket and it would be more difficult to prevent them playing.

Good point Derm. Maybe there should be fewer tours to the NH and vice versa? Back to the old days when it was more of a rarity? Well maybe not that far but perhaps every 2 years ... something has to change.

So my thoughts on this are an 80%/20% split of ticket revenue between host union and visitors. Also the visitors should pay their own travel and not expect the hosts to pay it. So England host Australian at Twickenham roughly three times in every RWC cycle. Split the ticket revenue accordingly - any revenue from hospitality is the home union's to keep. When Australia host England, then England take 20% of the ticket revenue from the three tests. The thing is, this approach tends to smooth out the peaks and troughs for the SH nations. With the PI teams its even more pronounced as England have played only one test in Fiji in the professional era. Its this issue with the host having to pay flights and accommodation that is the killer. Fiji would make less money from a sell out test in Suva than the cost of hosting a NH team like England. Not saying this is perfect but the current situation is driving higher salaries for NH club players and pushing more clubs into debt. The CVC funding will exacerbate this issue and, to my mind at least, further diminish world rugby.

Derm, I hear you but 80 players would be enough to bring four SR franchises back to competitive strength and bring the Western Force back to compete in SR. Whilst that's a simplistic view of the world, it does show the losses to richer NH clubs.

A deeply flawed concept dreamed up to make money to counter the damage caused by the wages arms race. It would have been much better to directly tackle the wages arms race. This leaves the door open to the 6 Nations selling out to QVC which will only increase demands on players and cost to fans as they demand a big return on their investment. The game is in a mess, and it's totally self inflicted.

Yeah. NVFS set me straight on that point as well. Has cleared things up for me, I had the wrong end of the stick there.

Don’t really like their Betting habits? First they jumped onto the Western FARCE’s . Total joke of an existence and then don’t mention the Cricket World Cup results?? They Could have really learnt a Good Rugby lesson by coming to Optus on Sunday , but most of them are ,so pompous ,so they can rot in hell and they can enjoy watching SR Rugby dying ? Good Luck? If want to come out of the @Death Roll “start watch NRL. May the Force be with RL????

If they are playing 5 away in Nov/Dec only 3 of those are part of the in-window WR test schedule - same as other 6N unions. The other two tests would be money-makers eg NZ v Ireland in Chicago or NZ v Aus in Japan, Japan v NZ, USA v Maori ABs, or Aus v Wal in Cardiff, Ireland v Italy in US, NZ v Barbarians, etc. It’s worth pointing out that Wal v Aus and v SA were not sellouts last Nov. Italy v Georgia had 18,500 in Florence, and same for vs Aus in Padua, Fra v Arg was 40k. In short, tests in NH in Nov are not all held in front of 81,000 at Twickenham.

Cheers. That clears things up for me. Thanks.

I was more pondering the inequity of hosting 2 or 3 while playing 5 away. You got it wrong, mate. Only three Tests are required in November. Anything extra over is a deal between the two participating unions, and there is a large degree of revenue-share. These extra Tests are important for the SH, so they can fill their coffers a bit more.

G’day Derm. I get that we make money when the NH come south. I was more pondering the inequity of hosting 2 or 3 while playing 5 away. I think you’ve probably nailed it with pointing out the BIL which evens up the coffers a fair bit although only being once every 12 years probably doesn’t quite match the two to three additional away games each season.

But then, if the rules being proposed applied universally, including when the SRU or FIR played away to NZRU, RFU or FFR...?

There are approx 80 Aus-born professional players in the 66 clubs in the 6 Nations. Less than half of the approx 180 professionals born in each of SA and NZ. Struggling NH unions don't want to finance struggling SH unions is probably more accurate. For example, look at the finances of the SRU or FIR in comparison to NZRU.

You do realise that 6N teams touring in SANZAAR countries don’t get any reward for these tours bar costs? Secondly, the tests were happening in June unaffected by SR and SANZAAR then expanded Super Rugby so that it ran into June instead of finishing in May. SANZAAR also asked for 3 test series for 2012-2019 in order to increase interest and generate greater revenues. Did the 6N teams benefit from these increased revenues? RA have provisionally agreed a tour with Ireland for 2020 two tests and a third test against a PI Nation, and play in Dublin in Nov 2020. NZRU have already agreed provisionally to play Ireland in Nov 2021 and host a three tests series against Ireland in July 2022. Under the new global refs and structure, the June tests have now been shifted to July - at the request of SANZAAR - so it doesn’t clash with SR. Except SANZAAR has now decided to downsize SR, and is likely to do so again, with the likelihood that it could finish in May again. Thirdly, the Lions series also benefit SANZAR (not Argentina though) and provide a substantial sum to each union every 12 years. Lastly, the SANZAAR teams play in a single location when they play tests in Nov. They play in “The NH”. The window will now start in the first week of Nov and run for three weekends.

background is mostly in equity derivatives operations was over 20 years in an investment bank, work for a prop quantitative research and trading firm these days

Just need them to sell that stake in the 6N’s, give them the short term sugar hit and then watch CVC strip their profits out. What is your business profession mate? Whatever business it is, I wanna work with you. Long term strategy is so intriguing. ;) ;) ;)

Just need them to sell that stake in the 6N's, give them the short term sugar hit and then watch CVC strip their profits out. Now how to convince the 6N's unions to do the deal? Surely they can't think they are smarter than the F1 guys, I mean they saw how that worked out for Formula 1. They aren't smart enough to get the cash and prevent something similar happening to them are they?

That is e true long term plan, mate. ;) Cold War intelligence officers would have been legends if they could have pulled off a ten-year plan like that.

Will be interesting to see what happens with CVC and their stake in the Gallagher Premiership and their offer for a stake in the 6N's. If they have a similar impact on NH Rugby as they had on the Formula 1 then this could break the English clubs. Maybe we just need to batten down the hatches, nurture the grass roots - the local club comps, NRC and the juniors. In about 10 years if the money in the north dries up we might be able to start retaining our players again.

Jeznez, I've been saying his for some time, usually to be shouted down. Looking back over the most recent tours here, Ireland, England and BIL were sellout crowds but Wales, France and Scotland played largely to half filled stadiums. But the bigger problem is sides like Fiji will draw a full crowd at Twickenham driving £10M but receive none of the gate receipts. Since Fiji can't afford to pay for England to visit there, they never do. How much development for the PI teams would there be if even 20% of the gate receipts from a NH tour were handed to those teams? Now I get that NH unions don't want to finance struggling SH unions but if this continues as it is, the SH will go broke and all the talent we produce will end up in the NH (it almost seems like this anyway). Long term, this will kill the game.