The A-League needs a good kick up the backside to revive interest and get it going again, and a national second division with promotion and relegation might do that.
It’s all well and good to say that the A-League needs to crawl before it can walk but at some point, you have to try. Trundling along with a closed league risks ending up in the A-League gradually fading out and dying from spectator boredom.
What’s needed is promotion and relegation.
Not a managed process or some weird and convoluted conference system like the former NSL, but two conventional leagues of 20 teams in each with a simple three up and three down at the end of each season. The salary cap and salary floor need to be scrapped and transfer fees brought in.
Teams that enter a second division will need to meet basic requirements such as having a certain number of seats as well as broadcasting facilities and so on, but they should also have to meet a required number of foundation members to show they would have enough support to be sustainable.
There should be enough locations to form two national divisions. Firstly, you have regional locations like Canberra, Wollongong, Tasmania, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, Townsville, Cairns, Geelong and Darwin who could all support teams.
Then you have a number of old clubs and new locations in the major cities like Sutherland Sharks, Sydney Olympic, Manly United, APIA Leichhardt, Fairfield, Penrith, South Melbourne, Dandenong, Melbourne Knights, Brisbane Strikers, Brisbane City, Ipswich, Redcliffe, Redlands, South Brisbane, West Adelaide, Adelaide City, Fremantle and Joondalup.
(AAP Image/Brendan Esposito)
If you have five top-flight teams in Sydney and another five in Melbourne that gives you 20 derbies in each city, for 40 in total. At that point, the continuation of the non-football-style finals would be highly questionable and they can be scrapped.
To start with, the first two seasons could be promotion only with four going up each time to bring the top flight to 20 teams. Then once there are 20 teams in each division, promotion and relegation can begin, which will create huge media interest and excitement among fans.
Once the second division is established there will be a whole new series of narratives that will create interest among fans from across Australia.
The return of the Wollongong Wolves to the national stage will be a great story while Canberra will be eager to begin a new stage in their history under the Canberra United banner.
Tasmania will be a newcomer who have never had the chance to compete on the national stage and will be determined to make an impact.
Gold Coast United could come back from the dead and play at a proposed 10,000-seat boutique stadium while Sunshine Coast will want to have a crack as well. Both teams will also be keen to get stuck into Brisbane Roar as together they represent the three largest cities in Queensland.
In North Queensland, Townsville could support a team while Cairns could host one too, setting up a North Queensland derby.
Geelong have never taken part in a national league but they would certainly be welcomed by many fans. With Greater Geelong’s population expected to grow to just under 400,000 by 2040 it really should have it’s own team, not one from Melbourne’s western suburbs.
Darwin is the logical choice to represent the Northern Territory.
In Sydney, the Cronulla Sharks could revive their bid for a second team under the same brand as the NRL team as Lyall Gorman was keen on before Southern Expansion came along and ruined it.
Out in the west, the Panthers could start a new team in Penrith as they once did in the NSL era, adding a new rivalry with the Wanderers.
(Photo by Nigel Owen/Action Plus via Getty Images)
Sydney United 58, Marconi Stallions and Bonnyrigg White Eagles could do a merger and start a new team in Fairfield. The local council are already upgrading Fairfield Showground in preparation for a future team if this happens.
On the Northern Beaches, Manly United have voiced interest in joining a second division and might also help the case for an upgrade of Brookvale Oval.
Down in Melbourne, the main contenders are South Melbourne, who never stop talking about themselves, Melbourne Knights, who were their main rivals, and Dandenong, who have a very solid bid for a new team. Even in a second division, the matches between these sides should draw good crowds and if they get promoted, they’ll attract even more fans.
In Brisbane things get interesting. Brisbane Strikers, Brisbane City and Ipswich all made A-League bids in the last round of expansion while clubs in Redcliffe and Redlands have stated their ambitions to join a second division. A hypothetical bid from South Brisbane might also be forthcoming, possibly linked with a hypothetical NRL bid by the Souths Logan Magpies and could hypothetically be based at a new stadium at Wakerley Park in Runcorn.
That just leaves the western states. Starting in Adelaide, you have Adelaide City and West Adelaide, the latter reportedly backed by a $100 million budget when they bid for an A-League licence in 2018. In Perth you have Fremantle City, who made a high-profile bid with Juventus, and ECU Joondalup, who local council have said they might be willing to build a stadium for in the future.
With 40 teams spread over two divisions and three new ones joining the top flight every season, there would be plenty of new interest in the A-League. As viewers and crowds improve, so will the TV and broadcasting deals, not to mention news coverage.
Promotion and relegation is the shake-up the A-League has to have.
blooddragon
Guest
Lion's in the Early 2000's are a good example of that despite them playing VFL
Dart
Guest
One other thing, I would like to see the FFA Cup Final become more of an ‘event’. Imagine if the Cup Final took place on Christmas Eve each year (maybe 10am kickoff so the away team could fly home for Christmas). It would become a major occasion on the sporting calendar like the Boxing Day test match. Plus people are on holidays, festive season would provide a great atmosphere.
Dart
Guest
Nemesis, In Austria they have a split season. I kind of like that, but I would like to see the A-League teams play in the NPL over winter and the A-League (14 teams) and B-League (10 teams) over summer. This would serve the dual purposes of shortening the A-League season but increasing the competitive matches for players. I think professional players need to play more frequently than the A-League allows. It would also attract more interest to the State Leagues and result in more derbies (so Victory will meet Melbourne City twice in the A-League season, but also twice in the winter NPL, as well as other big games like Victory vs South Melbourne). Not sure if it would meet that FIFA requirement about the length of the season though.
Dart
Guest
Waz, Forgive me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Lions FC and Brisbane Roar one and the same? I thought Brisbane Roar emerged out of Lions FC? Anyway, the Wolves are facing them in the National NPL Final this weekend. Really looking forward to it.
Dart
Guest
No finals?! Look, I appreciate the value of winning the League but you’ve gotta have finals. I know they don’t have finals in Europe, but they have multiple knock-out tournaments. Consider the finals a post-season Cup featuring only the best teams. That gives us two Cups - the FFA Cup and the Finals. The attendance at finals matches compared to regular season suggests the fans approve. Apart from that, knock-out football is almost always more exciting than league football. It is almost a different type of football. In addition, it prepares the players for knock-out competition which, if they go on to become Socceroos, they will be facing at international level. You need to have finals.
Maximus Insight
Guest
Rodger I appreciate you have elaborated further up but I thought I would give some insight from Australian football's use of pro/rel in the semi pro and amateur leagues in Victoria: -the 5 geographically defined metro leagues all have a divisional structure with pro/rel across 3 to 5 divisions; there are also 2 urban fringe leagues that operate under either 2 or 3 divisions with pro/rel (they are all generally only one up one down as far as I know) -the VAFA (also purely metropolitan) use pro/rel to organise their 7 divisions -outside of this, not one regional area in Victoria uses pro/rel. Generally there is one "premier" competition in each region and smaller leagues exist around it determined by geography and historical club strength So pro/rel is really the exception rather than the rule with geography (through travel costs and rivalry) dominating the organisation of clubs into leagues. Before the AFL, the top "state" leagues were all "closed shop" capital city leagues. The highest level that pro/rel has existed was in the old VFA which had two divisions from 1961 to 1988. If you look at the teams that played in it you'll find a who's who of defunct football clubs who folded due to financial failure mainly in the 80s. At higher levels of commercialism / professionalism, the costs associated with promotion and relegation increase substantially. Overlay that with Australia's "tyranny of distance" and it becomes clear why pro-rel at a national level is such a challenge in here I do think that soccer as a sport lends itself to pro/rel...just very hard for it to achieve that in Australia given distance and much lower revenue share compared to what it has in europe
Rodger King
Roar Rookie
Being the hot topic that it is, Promotion and Relegation to the A League, IMO, won't be the 'silver bullet' many people seem to think it will be. Before we consider P/R we must, as an absolute, have a sustainable and viable 2nd division. That may take 5 - 10 years to establish, that time line won't satisfy a lot of people, many of us want to happen as early as 2021. Realistically, if that was rushed through, [and it won't be] then it will fail. The next question or debate will be access to the 2nd division. This is even harder to establish than the current debate. IF the answer is no, the 2nd division must be a closed shop, then we have learnt nothing from the past 14 years. Access to and from the 2nd division will be harder to resolved than setting up the current 2nd division. As an example: the bottom team from the 2nd division comes from Melbourne. Does the FFV automatically slot them back into the top tier of Victorian Football? If so, does the FFV run their top league with an extra team, or do they prevent they top side from their 2nd division being promoted? I know silly questions, but they all have to be asked and answered before to go to the next stage. For a second division to work in Australia we need all of the State Federations working together [good luck with that] so that there is a smooth pathway for all clubs to actually reach the A League if they are capable of doing so. So many questions, so few answers!
Rodger King
Roar Rookie
@Koz - you do realise that there are many successful sports that currently run leagues that include promotion and relegation. Local football associations in all states have for nearly 100 years had P/R so to say it is sheer stupidity shows a lack of understanding. Even aussie rules associations run multiple leagues which includes P/R and from the out side looking in works ok. For P/R to work successfully [and it can for any sport] you need to have a sound base to work from. IMO for our football code to have a sustainable P/R system we need a highly successful, well organised [easier said than done] 2nd Division. Once that is set up and running successfully then you can look at a P/R system that suits our code here. Until then we should all just chill and work towards setting up that 2nd Division.
Ante
Roar Rookie
There is no chance Sydney United, Marconi and Bonnyrigg will be ok with merging to create a Fairfield team they are bitter rivals they should all have there own team as they are historic to Australian football and the second division should give a chance to former NSL sides as well as new markets a Fairfield Derby would make the league very exciting with an amazing atmosphere. Queensland cannot have that many teams and the idea of 20 team comp is stupid the HAL should aim for 14-16 with 2 to going up and down.
Nick Symonds
Guest
I just had a look at the United We Stand website for the Tasmanian AFL bid to see how many supporters they have and they've now got 43,423 signed up. If they could get just 10 percent of those to get on board an A-League side they'd be ahead of Central Coast, Wellington and Western United who are now on 1,803 members. Adelaide United aren't much better than any of those three, with just 4,771 members right now. But it's interesting that Brett Godfrey said that the AFL bid would be open to running an A-League side after it was proposed that a "super stadium" could be built at Macquarie Point which would be able to host administrative facilities for both codes. It sounds to me like there's a big push going on to get it built and the A-League bid is part of it. Verrrry interesting... - https://www.unitedwestand.com.au/ https://www.a-league.com.au/membership
Lionheart
Roar Rookie
yep. Infrastructure funding is badly lacking, all levels. I think it shows a poor political interface or interaction, over the years. There's a small park near me that is overrun in season, with clubs from all over, social clubs mainly I think like pub teams, playing there. The SE Qld Olympics bid, and Women's World Cup bid may help our cause, I hope anyway.
Waz
Roar Rookie
Yeah I get that. Part of the conversation (ignored by the author) could be a 10 year program to get government investment into things like that. Imagine $100-$150m over ten years going into QLD infrastructure - it could be huge. At the same time there’s junior clubs fighting for investment in much needed facilities and I don’t see an easy conversation between investment in professional facilities for national leagues vs investment in local clubs for local comps.
Lionheart
Roar Rookie
You are right Waz, but Queenslanders will always get behind a winner. Roar hasn't exactly endeared itself over the years, and needs to get back to its winning ways with a couple of high-profile locals on board (like DWH and Izzey Powell). Management has greatly improved since those low days of Ballymore, and we have to ensure Brisbane knows that. Bronco's are on an all-time low, Brisbane's ripe for Roar's picking. As for government, that's as much indicative of the political influence and efforts of FFA and Football Qld, but it does seem that they're improving. At least the Qld government is getting behind the FFA's Womens World Cup 2023 bid, well done them all.
Waz
Roar Rookie
Exactly. Try expanding the A League to 14 or 16 sides. Try creating a national second division that is stable and financially viable for clubs to be promoted into and relegated in to. Two huge tasks, both of which I believe can be achieved if done right.
Lionheart
Roar Rookie
Waz, Redlands council plan to build a new Sports complex at Mount Cotton . They've already set aside (bought) a large parcel of land and are looking for tenants, and some help from State/Federal to build the complex. It's a bit like the Logan setup for Roar. Redlands FC and touch football are the clubs in the conversation. Redlands are an ambitious club with a realistic vision to play above NPL in a national second division, ultimately HAL. But we all know there's a lot of water to come under the bridge before that, still the new grounds are in motion, no time frame that I'm aware.
Capitalcritic
Roar Rookie
I'm sick of hearing what can't be done. Details aside, you gotta try.
Capitalcritic
Roar Rookie
Right on. I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately the FFA is both too timid and too bureaucratic (ie incompetent). I say, build what you suggest, and they will come. A League Del Piero and Honda fans, stalwart NPL fans, community footballers and their families and friends, and average Ausies who like exhilarating competitions of any kind. The AFL is impregnable, but the NRL and Rugby are going out backwards on the basis of week to week crowds and ratings (leaving aside showpieces). What an opportunity off the back of interest in the EPL and World Cups. Imagine what could be done if we could grow our own Del Pieros and Honda's!
Waz
Roar Rookie
Queensland is dominated by NRL, commercially there’s little money for sponsorship etc. and Government support for the code is very low (ask why Dolphin Oval for NRL is a beaut but Perry Park a dump?) The inconvenient truth is there’s only one team with the financial clout and it’s Lions FC. Talk about Groundhog Day lol.
chris
Guest
Yes imagine trying to engage the huge grassroots player base with more teams! Who would've thought! Does it fit the FTA television model. No it does not. Does the current A-League structure fit the existing FTA model? No it does not. Does pro/rel fit the new streaming platform/new ways of consuming data? Yes it does. You need to stop thinking like what works for the AFL's, League models. When you have a player base that is anywhere between 3-8 times the size of those other sports, you need more teams at the top level in this country. Simple as that.
Nick Symonds
Guest
Queensland: The AFL has a fortress in Melbourne and the NRL has one in Sydney. That could open the door for the A-League embedding itself in Queensland. Would 11 teams out of 40 be too many? Brisbane Roar Gold Coast Sunshine Coast Townsville Cairns - Brisbane Strikers Brisbane City Redcliffe (Peninsula Power want to enter a second division and could use Dolphin Stadium) - Ipswich (Local council want a stadium for an NRL bid) Redlands (Local council is open to building them a stadium if they enter a second division) South Brisbane (Hypothetical Souths Logan Magpies JV)