Australia needs to plan for its wicketkeeping future

I suppose ! That’s an hilarious response. Are you sure you understand the role and value within a team of high class wicketkeeping. Since the Gilchrist years many commentators as yourself in this piece and punters alike whether you realise it or not speak in terms of batting as the primary skill and WK the secondary. Cricketers themselves don’t call the WK the drummer in the band for nothing. If you don’t understand that analogy than I’m speaking to a blank wall here cheers

The NSP probably have their own 'current' ranking of keepers in case Paine suffers a sudden, career ending injury. Can someone hack Chairman Trev's PC?

Yes, that's generally the case. My point was just that you shouldn't be absolute about keeper-captains. And if you don't agree with that then I'll be reporting you to the Ombudsman for discrimination against wicketkeeprs. Speaking of brainless batsman... During the last Ashes the TV director provided a medium closeup of small group of Oz fielders having an earnest discussion about something. At the mike Punter said; "I was about to say that 'There's the Australian brains trust', but then I noticed that David Warner was in there."

You're just maturing, John.

True, not all batsmen make good captains. But the ones that do are better placed than bowlers or wicketkeepers to do the job without the competing demands of being a bowler or a wicketkeeper.

We agree again, Don... Has the world gone crazy?

I meant to say his last 25 games like I did in my first post. Yes he has played a total of 33 games and has an overall average of 32.48. He debuted in the 12/13 season as a specialist opening batsman while Ludeman was keeping and didn’t do well and was dropped. He then didn’t play the 13/14 or 14/15 season and only replaced Ludeman as keeper during the 15/16 season. Since the start of the 16/17 season he has played 25 First Class games and averages 37.82

Thats absolutely ridiculous that carey should have any captaincy talk. Ridiculous. He needs a few years of test cricket. I find the head argument a bit ridiculous too. They need to go through a good away tour or two with good form to merit captaincy. On that basis like it not Cummins is the one who is leading this team brilliantly in key moments . I don’t think you need to captain the state to captain the aussie team. Theres plenty of experience on the field especially if smith is out there. I think Head and Carey both need to cement their positions for some time. I don’t mind Smith taking it over but also would welcome cummins. I know the history of bowling is limited with captains but I’ve no problem with it, there have been a few great captains that bowl. History shouldn’t dictate who is the best captain is, performance and leadership should . Nor should some silly Cricket Australia plan with expectation. Cummins has those leadership attributes in spades right now but in a way another year is perfect for him and maybe even smith as interim captain if need be. Smith may say no to it anyway. He’s pretty humble smith no matter what people say of him. He’s a good man and a like his field settings on the pitch. Head and Carey have plenty of work to do right now. Head didn’t seem particularly intelligent to me at all in interview in england but then again neither is smith off the field. Its probably a moot point its on the field that matters. Its been hard with that lemming warner in the side despite the fact he can bat on flat decks but he’s really put Australia in it for me politically on numerous occasions badly. Cummins seems like a common sense guy who is brilliant under pressure and came out after one loss and said its time to go again in england. Loved his attitude didn’t get down at all and highly motivated after headingly. Comes out and rips them apart again. He’d be fine with field settings and humble enough to know his limitations . he’s a great bloke and amiable common sense and for me seems a bit more intelligent than smith and head when he’s talking. Carey doesn’t enter the debate yet for captaincy. These silly Cricket Australia agendas are not good. We are also entering an age where one day cricket form is annoyingly used as assessment for tests. Just less and less shield and test cricket access due to the international call ups for me. Yesteryear was different. Not the system I like.

I don't think Wade has the skills with the gloves to be the test keeper. If Paine is there for another two years that will give Carey the time to mature. Also, it will give Philippe, who I think is a real special talent, the time to establish himself as a proper contender for the role

I agree Carey should be the next keeper, however there are some young one's showing promise. Also I find it a bit strange with the thought that some advocate Carey could be the next captain (or at some stage). There has been comment from some on here that a wicket keeper should not be captain, due to that job, keeping and batting. Yet some seem to be advocating Carey for the captaincy. He has had no tests yet, and if made captain even early in his test career, would place enormous pressure on him. Yes he has been made captain of the Australia A side, however that could be to allow the batsman contenders to concentrate on their batting to push their case for selection. I find it strange that Head captains Sth Aust. but Carey is above him in this game.

Ill have to go back but one was definitely a ball that he thought was going down leg side , it didn’t he was wrong footed. and then dived back it was a missed opportunity. Claims there were three keeping errors from memory if we are sticking to keeping alone. Point is he may be leading keeper right now but by how much now? its hard to ascertain right. His skills are not going to get better at his age. He’s a lock for the summer in any event as captain and should do ok on an australian deck. The salient issue at hand is his keeping and can he stay in the side on that basis alone, who can keep spin bowling as well as Paine. Certainly not wade but we have to give a keeper or two international experience with spin before the epic 2022 away tour on subcontinent thats for sure , where paine will be too old for sure at 37. I think the keeping argument is slightly premature and will be reassessed with more urgency this time next year as paine plays this summer due to captaincy issues and is probably marginally still the best keeper if there was a way of analyzing them in real time right now. At least carey is getting a lot of games keeping in short form in the mean time . Cant rule out a new kid but they seem very young at this point. Wade is out of the equation for me but as a back up keeper to carey in 12 to 18 months could be a good combination at least with deep inform batting as the bonus

The only thing is Pierro, I can remember Paine dropping two catches in the ashes. Perhaps I am getting too old and missed something. Also a couple of stumping's off Lyon were regarded as exceptional by commentators. Perhaps you can give me specific details of those few missed catches. I will bow to your knowledge if so.

Can you enlighten me where your figures come from re Carey. Cricinfo gives his F/C figures as 33 matches at an average of 32.48. Not quite the figures you claim. What are you referring to ?

It's fine for you to think that he needs more time but once again you've based this on one (batting) game which makes you think he's not ready. 25 Games 1475 runs at an average of 37.82, and 101 dismissals is a pretty good record. He's also shown at international level he can cope. The 3 keepers you named Wade, Bancroft and Handscombe are probably the three worst you could have chosen to write about being the next test keepers. There are other keepers that will challenge Carey to be the next test keeper but you haven't actually written about wicket keeping. Also I doubt Sussex will sign him as they have signed Travis Head and the Sussex captain is also their wicket keeper.

Maxwell's account was very telling and he's not given to hyperbole. I also feel CA did not clearly outline the 'deeds' and punishments. I read all I could on it and felt they short-changed the public. And as you rightly point out, they did not advise Smith real well for the presser at the end of play that fateful day. ----- As an aside, I feel Hughes did not have the confidence expressed in him like they should have. G Chappell was very selfish with his coming n going as captain. He treated the captaincy like a plaything which really is tantamount to disdain. He should've been all in or all out. So Hughes was then treated poorly from the outset. And compounded any issues he inherently had with captaincy himself. ----- CA will stuff up the appointment of a new captain is what my money is on.

I just also think Paine after this summer would do well to help groom the next keeper and phase him in next summer with some experience as he hits 36. Its the right thing to do at that age for the nation . theres no doubt keeping at 36 years of age diminishes and he will get a great summer in the next six weeks but they must look ahead with so little test cricket in 2020 with 10 months off besides a water slide test or two in bangladesh at that time of year

Those comments sound pretty good to me and well thought through. Agreed . Ponting was not a great captain losing the ashes so much and made some poor decisions in critical moments. Hughes was a terrible captain but thats the sort of era statistically that compares to Paine. Everyones had better win rates since and Paine gets the benefit of Smith and Cummins saving his tail in the ashes by bolstering his win ratio as he captained poorly Smith is better than Paine on field by a distance. Both arguably the best batsmen for Australia since Bradman but thats a different point. Smith could not control Warner but besides a few stand out captain since the 1980 era, I am not sure who could control Warner he has been so impulsive, reactive and not smart at all. Warner has been given so much wiggle room by selectors too and much more forgiveness in the whole fiasco than Smith given Warner is clearly the one who chose sandpaper and got riled up by the SA players the whole series in SA with a fight in the tunnel as well. Smiths certainly done his time for me and too much time . The captaincy ban of two years has been over the top. If the guy had taken sandpaper out of his pocket himself and had full knowledge and called the instruction himself then fair enough but its highly unlikely it went down that way. Warner was outcast by the team straight after the match compared to smith by Jim Maxwells account on the team bus. Sometimes the charge sheet just doesn’t tell the whole story and in any event Smiths done one year and did a lot of charity work and you could see the remorse for even being negligent and not reacting well post incident Smith has done his time and seems like you may agree on that point which I may have misread .

You talk a lot about the metrics, but you really don't need metrics to judge wicketkeeping. If he drops too many easy catches and misses too many stumping chances, he's a poor keeper. If he doesn't, he's tidy. If he takes screamers and gets to tough stumping chances, he's a good keeper. You'll find that it's not as subjective as you make it seem. I watched that video. What's the big deal? It's basic wicketkeeping. Watching the ball come into your hands? Open stance to give you a trigger movement towards the ball? If you aren't applying that by U15s you shouldn't be keeping at all. Even Kamran Akmal did those two things. Didn't make him a good keeper. All 4 dismissals shown in the video were regulation chances that should really be taken easily. Only the stumping had some level of difficulty about it.

Watch them. You can see the difference.