Smith “better” under captaincy pressure

Smith has proven to be better tactically or at least lead from the front compared to Paine. Listening to Smith's comments after the 5th test where he felt mentally exhausted, I am inclined to give captaincy to someone else to just keep Smith in this elite zone that he is in. He has found another level in his batting and we shouldn't risk losing it altogether by burdening him especially in this hectic era of constant cricket.

Absolutely come on back in as our skipper Smitty! As the most influential batsmen in red hot form with better tactical awareness than Paine you qualify easily. The wowsers here will say ‘no but you’re a cheat and that means you can’t do it’ blah blah blah but that clearly has nothing to do with your job when you look at other successful cricket teams around the world. He made a mistake and has paid for it. Away with your boring whining, wowsers. We need a skipper who leads with his actions on field, not a ‘nice’ guy. SA was more than a year ago. Get TF over it. Paine is a gun keeper and probably a good VC. That’s as far as he goes.

I think captaincy stats dont do justice. 1) Border had defections to various Saffer comps n such that had their genesis in the Greg/Kim/Greg/Kim shenanigans. I don't rate Border as high as my other top 4, tactically, but his single-minded determination and clear expectations were inspiring to his team. He is definitely better than that low rate of wins would otherwise indicate. He started that incredible run of Ashes wins. 2) conversely, Ponting had a high rate of wins but was no leader of men, lost the Ashes multiple times and had a couple of very questionable acts when captain. A true case of the 'mob making the drover look good'. 3) Clarke was aloof and offsided so many. Tactically good but lacking the empathy to run a team. Katich? Hussey? 4) Waugh took a while for me when he was just as a batsmen but he redeemed himself. Claimed catches and running many partners out, he did not endear himself to many. But that gutsy effort making 200 in the Windies turned it around. And like Chappelli* standing up to DK, Waugh stood upto Warne. That to me showed his mettle as man leading a team. Don't think for one minute it was just all those greats, Waugh melded that team and his leadership was a major part of that incredible run. 5) Chappelli stood upto DK on at least two occasions. He also won MORE tests without Lillian Thompson than he did with her.

If we were cocaptains of the 2001 side it would be like warner and smith in SA no doubt comedy although I doubt either of us would come up with sandpaper. Warner takes the cake on that one for being luny of the decade. Id rather be ons smith side any day Good stat hunting none the less but I don’t think mentioning 2001 helps Ive repeatedly acknowledged I think Ponting was a medioce captain for losing three ashes but steve waugh was still a great leader despite the great players numerous times in his tenure he came to the crease when australia was 4 wickets down and helped save or guide australia back in to the match more than a few times, selected great fields and batted like a champion. Players respected him. Couldnt see him bungling double figure DRS decisions up. Its not a great comparison. . Also Paine didn’t win the series as I’ve stated he bungled a draw. Arise Sir Steven

The whole point is you can't claim smith and warner being there for paine when the only reason paine is captaining is largely due to their screw up. The team they had is the team they had. If Smith wasn't in the ashes. Paine goes down to under 30 percent win ratio. Point is once again Paine actually lost matches with poor decision making and batting and his bowling changes were really slow in parts. He has topped the worst DRS decision making in one series by some margin. May never be beaten actually. Another captain smith or even cummins probably would have got us over the line in the ashes and increased the win percentage. Warner who your promoting did little in england In fact Im mistaken its paine and warner who are the chief culprits in preventing an ashes win. Without smith Paines win record would be languishing around 25 percent which would certainly top all your stats . Pakistan and Kiwis should easily get that win rate up but he won't have to do much in those tests just keep and leave DRS to someone else hopefully, that will help. batting should be much easier in australia. Succession times coming one way or the other later next year

Following up on my post I did some research. Our last ashes win in 2001, with career test averages. Hayden 51, Langer 45, Ponting 52, WaughM 42, WaughS 51, Martin 46, Gilchrist 48, and a bowling attack of McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Lee. Lets see against the side Paine had to captain in the last test, Warner 45, Harris 24, Labs 37, Smith 64, MarshM 25, Wade 30, Paine 32, and the bowlers Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood, Siddons. I know which side would have been far easier to captain. That 2001 side includes probably eight of the best players to have played for Australia. The other three Martin, Langer and MWaugh were pretty good also. Virtually the same team minus the Waughs lost the ashes in 2005, with Clarke and Katich replacing them. Different eras, with maybe Warner, Smith, Cummins, Lyon, and perhaps Heazelwood anywhere near the same league. You could have captained the 2001 side, they were that good.

Pierro, Can you give it a miss re the constant Paine denigration. "Worst captain in Australian cricket history". For your information, Paine's winning record is 35.71%. Oh lets see Bob Simpson 30.76%, Bill Lawry 36%, Allan Border 34.40%. Yes Taylor, Waugh, Ponting & Clarke have better records, but the first three of them had far better players beside themselves eg Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, McGrath etc. Paine did not have Smith and Warner (ranked 4 in the world at the time), for 9 of his 14 tests. You say Smith single handedly won the ashes in England, so therefore on your reckoning Paine's record in the early tests could have been far better if he had been available. I will give up defending Paine if you will desist in denigrating him at opportunity. Doubt that will happen, so look forward to further replies.

Rowdy all very valid points , loved the allan jeans greatest hits but conversely although there have been some strong captains khan , akram, younis, benaud, willis , handle all did it pretty well mate and cummins is the strongest candidate outside of smith as it stands. Cummins hasn’t expressed a lot of desire for it admittedly but he’s leadership material both on and off the pitch. Id prefer to see Smith take us abroad to SA and the subcontinent though in 2021/2022 then hand it over to the most solid candidate myself. Was just commenting elsewhere on it that he’s done his time , and may be a much captain now after that it make him stronger for it. One issue is the lack of candidates . Smith may not want it but he’s come out saying he’s a better player when he has the pressure of captaincy . Time to be positive about it all with him. He’s a good man. I wouldn’t complain if Cummins got it but it may not be ideal for many of the reasons you outline. No one else is close to it right now for me as the have only just got in to the side or are out of the side looking to get back in .

I can't reiterate your comments more. Smith is a good man and probably the best cricketer of his generation right now. Focus on his positives now theres a lot of speculation around what exactly happened. He was negligent and acted wrongly but the precise details are still not even known before it took place moreover two years is a long time , its like the guy was deemed to be a criminal at that media trial and with his ban. I can't imagine what it was like for the guy back in the heart of it all to respond as he has indicates the measure of the man he is, everyone makes bad mistakes, Im sure we all have some shocking ones that won't get publication prosecution by media trial. There seems to be a bit more staging going on by CA things seems so staged nowadays from bans to captaincy candidates well ahead of time with plenty of PR/marketing execs around it no doubt.

You really have to be pushed into a corner to pick a bowler, esp a fast bowler to captain. Yes l know Benaud and Khan have pulled it off. I see to many logistical issues. I’m not saying, per se, they can’t do it. It’s just that logistical considerations are an impediment to bowling-captains. —— #1) the marshalling of a field requires a ball-by-ball assessment. Chuffing it in you can’t be thinking about ‘machinating’ a wicket. Something a batting-only captain has the luxury of doing. Wicketkeeping-captains suffer from this as recently exposed. (I was screaming, in pain, at Paine, do this, do that, grab the bowler by the lapel and say “wtf are you thinking”. Move this bloke, something, play him Allan Jean’s greatest hits, sheesh. l lost my voice with The Ben Stokes folly. Create some doubt, some deception,…) #2) bowling captains tend under-bowl themselves or, occasionally, over-bowl. #3) bowlers aren’t all chummy, all the time, and the non-captaining bowlers may inevitably resent the captaining bowler’s tactical nous. Bowlers generally go with what a batsmen-only captain says.

So many of the negative comments I see talk like it's impossible for someone to learn from a mistake and get better. But life is about learning from our mistakes. We all stuff up, make mistakes, do things we shouldn't do, don't do things we should do. And hopefully we learn and grow and mature and become better people. I don't know if Smith would be a great captain if he became captain again, but I have no doubt that he would have learnt a lot that would make him a much better captain than he was before. Plus, I think the overall culture change in the team would make it a better environment in which to be the captain.

Completely agree James and would add that despite being initially selected as a bowler, would hardly ever throw his arm over for a few to help out his quicks.

Yes chris anyone think the whole warner gate can help smith become a better captain off the field? Because Smiths record is vastly superior to paines on a win ratio (20 percent better) and what he just did in the ashes was all but what a leader and hero does for his nation and pretty much got us the two wins we had in the series. He’s quite simply a way better captain on the field. Not saying he’s border/waugh or taylor but he’s hands down better than paine , ponting and anyone else in the side right now. he’s done his time for his negligence. too much time and too much public stabbing and the media frenzy was unprecedented. No one deserves to go through what he did and he never blamed warner he stepped up . No other cricketer has ever endured anything like it for me given the size of the incident. Still laughing how atherton can apply rocks in his pockets to actually effect the surface and Deplussis has had a go as captains and never got done for a match and defended by their cricket boards. Digressing though enough is enough Smith is a good man. He’s fine to captain the side again preferably for a year or two to then get cummins or the next guy in line. He didn’t match fix , he didn’t hit any one in the head outside a pub, he didn’t use sandpaper himself and highly likely he had no idea Warner was going to use sandpaper . If anything its speculation which is a poor way to judge . In any event he’s done a huge sentence and has displayed six months of leadership attributes and would no doubt not let anything like it ever happen again. It will make him stronger as a leader . The other captain candidates mentioned have barely played a series recently or are not even in the side until we hear selection in a few weeks after missing tests. The talk about them is so premature , its delusional for me. Only two men out there to captain the side right now Smith or Cummins. That will change in a few years but 24 months to go for newcomers outside of those two is not wise in my opinion . you hit it on the head though , smith will want to show he is a better and stronger captain . its a positive way to look at it instead of being negative

Agree with all the hash tags except the next best interim captain would be smith per #2 . then he can groom in Cummins or the next candidate. .Carey and Wade are ludicrous suggestions. Head needs to be selected back in the side and show he can bat away from home Av 23 not good enough in ashes. No one is ready as no one is a consistent pick in the side for me quite yet outside of one man Cummins. Im not sure if he wants the job but he’s the most balanced intelligent man in the side with a backbone. What he did after headingly and his press interview was great it was a demoralizing loss and he came out and put england to the sword with brushing aside a harrowing loss alongside smith. Smith and Cummins are the true leaders out of the ashes. We don’t need to extrapolate beyond that right now to maybes especially with players not even in the side or just back in to the side after a series.

yes smiths win ratio as captain is 50 plus percent, paines is 35 percent if that and he can thank smith for contributing to that win ratio in the UK as it would have gone down in to the 20s making paine the worst captain in australian history in the record books. Smith is right that under extreme pressure he does extraodinary things .

John its two years ago, and you can largely warners inception and mischief. Not saying smith wasn't negligent and reacted poorly though. If atherton can use rocks in his pocket as captain and get no ban, if de plussiss(captain)/rabada have a go and get no ban , and I think coke bottle tops were used in one incident then theres just no ban or one match ban overturned in one SA incident you have to scratch your head over whats happened to smith. The media frenzy was a witch hunt after it. The Boks or ECB would be busy shielding their players or out right denying things as they have done in the past imposing little ban if any. I don't like it one bit. Smith was hugely negligent in the way he handled it but on the field he's a fine captain. He's done his time and been stabbed by the public left right and centre. comes back and almost single hardly wins you the ashes, you can thank the perpetually selected carrot top for the initiation and implementation of the whole saga and some more idiocy elsewhere for us not winning the ashes . Smith was negligent but enough is enough he's a good man and he's fine to captain. Hopefully you caught him on his numerous kids charity days during his years ban whilst warner was busy trying to earn more mercenary dollars before his worst opening batsman effort in one series in cricket history in the UK. Smith is fine to captain for me. In fact after what he's been through and way he stepped on the sword (and never shopped warner for the sandpaper) no problem forgiving him. He's good to captain served his ridiculous sentence and lead by example in england. He's shut up blamed no one else for a saga he didn't create . I think people need to get off their arm chair high horse and forgive his negligence let alone the fact its more than certain he didn't sanction warner to use bl**dy sandpaper even if there was group instructions to rough up the ball

matter of time james once CAs self imposed media frenzy ban is over smith will be asked next year to retain he may not , may go to cummins who I deeply respect . Im not immune to paine retaining his place in side if he can do it on merit with keeping and batting but comes a time when you want to help the succession plan and not hang on to the bitter end . Its a debate for next november though which I keep saying.

Knives are out for Smith to be made captain in the minds of some. I can understand that. He doesn't need the captaincy to score a mountain of runs. He sharpened those knives with his own lack of respect for the captaincy position culminating in his handling of sandpaper gate. Not captaincy material for many. I can understand their view.

True for most part except I don't loathe paine. I like him as a bloke but will not sit by when there is room for rapid improvement and we had 30 to 50 runs in batting going missing in most tests tests and keeping which was pretty good to so so at times being tainted as leagues in front of others and poor captaincy decisions costing us . If a new keeper came in yes it would be carey right now but that doesn't mean I don't rule out others stepping up . Test cricket will be the time to judge him fully when he can actually get selected. There was a great chance to step him in as batsman in the 5th test for experience and bin the inept openers there and maybe include head as well or khwaja at top but nope they wouldn't budge. Result. A loss . Result a drawn series. Same old same the FCA/test averages back in australia were all that mattered apparently . Inept selection with batsman and bowlers there, alongside Paines beauty to bowl first after a 3 day bowling break which langer couldn't believe. Broken record indeed but happy to restate the facts.

The arguments are comical for paine for me as captain after UK and will get buried in australia facing less challenging opposition on home soil advantage. One minute Paine didn’t have warner and thats why he lost matches before the ashes., next minute he has warner in the UK who makes the fewest runs in test cricket history (yes that 100 plus years for all major nations) in an opening 5 match series. Still didn’t win the series . Yet Smith no matter what way you spin it makes arguably one of the greatest 4 match knocks in cricketing history. The fact is we most definitely would have lost without Smith (its no maybe right it is right). It doesn’t matter who other players have in their side there is no batting freak and cricket like smith right now , only kohl gets close. He singlehanded won matches for the most part in england alongside the two extraordinary bowlers and labs. Paine did nothing in the process but detract really. I do acknowledge he had to be there (due to cricket australias arbitrary self imposed ban ). Smiths innings to get us out of losing the first test is the stuff of legend from the position we were in. Meanwhile paine was coming out at 5 wickets down and flogging one to the boundary within minute to be caught as CAPTAIN. It set the tone for his series. It was not smart for a veteran and captain at all. you are right if paine had batted well (another fault) we may have had enough to win at headingly where he scored 0 and 11 and we went down by a ball or wait was that due to paines most ludicrous decision in DRS history (not that the umpire helped the next over). Im not making anything up about paine and not going to change my tune on it. We did not win the ashes he was a huge factor in not doing that and Smith was the biggest factor in us taking home a drawn series and yet the knives are still out for him . Its comedy for me. Whats always funny is theres more endorsement for warner and paine than there is for the two best performers lately in the world cup final matches (carey) and ashes (smith) . The knives come out for our two biggest perfomers in england although special mention to cummins and hazel wood who were exceptional .