David Warner deserves more respect

Don't dream its over john. Facts are facts I provided them you went off topic because examples were provided to you. Keep waffling on though

Nice try. Keep on dreaming

Out of arguments I see John. Figures that you get personal . Context is everything indeed an ashes example and senior leaders have all done it. Fact is its happened several times nothing deluded about facts only those that can’t accept them. Next

Context is everything, but you can't accept that as it doesn't fit your flawed narrative. You are seriously deluded.

coming back to retaining the same side at perth chris and not rotating neser in there. I think whats swaying me is last years match at perth , australia won it with same bowling line up against india without smith and warner and four bowlers. As long as starc has no niggles . NZ still bat deep though its not totally clear cut for me . head made runs at perth last year against india so here is his chance. ill be interested to see who the kiwis have in their bowling though first before selecting head v neser. I hadn't really thought of pattinson there but I think he goes really well at mcg in past. The MCG match I'm more concerned about actually. We got done there by India last year and theres some big question marks there on starcs/lyons effectiveness whereas pattinson bowls extremely well there. I note hohns has put the spinners on notice for SCG and that one may come in to it. Its Okeefe v Swepson if so surely.

oh my god now your citing format. Hilarious. These are top level players. , the format doesn’t matter. Pull the other leg john, you’ll do anything to worm your way out of being called out on this one., and the fact is on craig , he called to deselect himself , did warner? Thats one of the points you can still do the selfless thing. No warner did not. Chandimal, Morgan. Misbah , dennes, craig all put their hand up for de selection , four of them did it. you pined on about one example and timing didn’t you’d got caught out assuming I had no more examples . You have been drawn, measured and found wanting on this argument john. There were multiple examples and modern ones and past ones of top level cricketers. Now your randomly citing other Australian crickketers (one over only 3 test matches ) randomly stammering with some sort of defense all of whom once again did not match warners 5 matches in a row on a surface/conditions he was just not able to play on, which effectively was a big factor in losing the series. Comedy. Your not making any new points as I always agreed selectors should have made the call there was no argument there but you seem to keep mentioning it . I just said that Warner could Also deselect. We can close this one down now. You didn’t believe there were more examples of top level cricketers who do the right thing when they are really poor and it effects the side. WRONG yet again but I’m sure you’ll deflect or divert the issue you again. Just accept there are several examples of deselection or putting the hand up to say I’m not playing well enough and should step back, and warners innings was an extreme example of a poor series with the lowest record in cricket history over 5 matches in a key series which would put him top candidate to be dropped by selectors or deselect himself. Ive provided the evidence you rabbited on about me having one example and was thoroughly caught out as I just hadnt had time to go back to it. Let me know a po box and ill send you some humble pie john

I believe you will need to keep looking because of the players mentioned, two weren't even playing a test series, but rather short format matches. Hardly the same thing as stepping down from a test side. Ian Craig? We head back in time a further 16 years. By the way, Craig played the next test, did he not. Why was that? Oh yes. that's right. The selectors made the decision, didn't they? More confirmation of what I have stated all along. Well done! So Denness, Craig and ancient history is the very best you can do. That is the one fact you have provided. Look a little more recently, perhaps. Maybe Warne in the 1999 West Indies series when he was bowling pies? Nope! He didn't step down. He was dropped. Mark Waugh after his four consecutive ducks against Sri Lanka? Nope! He didn't step down either. Ponting after his three test series in India 2001 for a total of 6 runs? Nope. Not even Punter cared about the team, apparently. We lost that series. Did you condemn Ricky for his selfishness, then? I hope so or you would be a massive hypocrite, wouldn't you?

oh look john heres another example of a player, Ian craig, australian captain, who wanted to be dropped, in this instance outvoted by a selector none the less did what warner would never do and put himself forward to deselect in a huge test series. “The Australian skipper again struggled with the bat in the Second Test in Cape Town, making a duck, but this was overlooked by the media as his team won by a decisive innings margin. In the Third Test at Durban, Craig made 52 on a pitch that was difficult for batting, his first Test half-century since his debut.[20] His team scored 163 in their first innings, and after the hosts made 384, Craig made a duck as Australia struggled to a score of 7/292, salvaging a draw in the process. Despite the disagreement as to whether Craig was deserving of the captaincy, the team proceeded without infighting.[64] Prior to the Fifth Test, Craig wanted to drop himself due to poor form, which would have made Harvey captain.[64] Peter Burge, the third member of the selection panel and a Harvey supporter,[55] was comfortable with this, but Harvey ordered Burge to retain Craig. When the vote was formally taken, Harvey and Burge outvoted Craig, who was still offering to drop himself.” Do I have to go on with more research? Just letting you know I already had all the knowledge on this , pays not to doubt those who deal in truth and fact John.

Oh look another one another selfless cricketer. Eoin Morgan in this instance. Please educate yourself john on selfless cricketers who put team above their own poor form. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/25/eoin-morgan-england-michael-vaughan

Ok decided to look up some of those other names, theres more I just had to bother to look for the names previously posted on roar in fact these may have been additional to those previously listed. Just to firmly put you in your place with your lack of knowledge on the issue I looked for a minute or two. Safe to say your wrong on this one John. Ill send over some humble pie mate no need for any apology as its just a forum and all and just cricket , not that the timing matters but two of them were last decade. See article below. The fact is several players in poor slumps have been selfless when the team was hugely effected. Warners was probably the worst of them too. Happy to educate you on this one john. Always good to learn more about the game from those who deal with facts not fiction. http://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/3-instances-when-a-captain-dropped-himself-from-the-team

The fact was a captain of england deselected against lillle and thomos ashes due to poor batting, its creditable because its true john. Its fact. We agree on the rest it seems in any event . Fact is no other cricketers have performed as badly as an opener in one series as warner though so there is less need for them to have deselected, warner was the lowest of all performers in that series in 120 years of all nations and all cricketers, so he is the first one tha would be in line to deselect and it has happened with better scores posted than warners before in the highest standard of the sport in the ashes in elite company. Good to validate my point firmly and with fact disproving your claims that it doesn’t happen.

Nothing was forced upon you. "only quote facts that are highly creditable". That phrase alone is hilarious or at least it would be if you had used the correct word. Still, it is nice that you had a go. I am sure there is plenty we can agree on. Warner had an abysmal Ashes and selectors should have dropped him. He was a walk up start back at home and bound to score plenty on the tracks he loves. I do look forward to all the selfless team players stepping down in the near future, when they are struggling for form. Apparently, they are out there somewhere...

Replying to the same question/comment over and over is replying to the repetition forced upon me but happy to leave it where it is as I've only quote facts that are highly creditable. I fully know what I've asked of warner in the 4th or 5th test in england. He could easily have waltzed back in to the side in Australia . If players can pull away from selection for mental health issues they can pull away for physical performances that are exceptionally poor. Not that I expect someone like warner to do the right thing for the team. I do of course acknowledge its the selectors duty first no problem with priority here never said otherwise. Suggest you stop flogging a dead horse thats been answered properly. We can agree to disagree if you like .

I like your comments Pierro. While I'm at it, add in DRS to stop those howlers of decisions and I feel confident that no one can be compared to Sir Donald.

Nice try, but time for you to grow up a little. Saying the same thing over and over doesn't make it right. In real life, do you just get louder to cover for your lack of credibility in discussions? Just asking for a friend. Please don't over assume your place in my world. Your flogging a dead horse efforts here could never make me happy or unhappy. Your opinion just isn't that important. I merely wonder if you actually comprehend what you were asking of Warner. Clearly, that's too big an ask of you.

player(s) have , you can chase the data up as I know its multiple and been discussed on roar before. the timing is irrelevant ? why is timing important? my position is warner is selfish in all ways on and over his career (he’s not a team player at all and has proved it on multiple occasions on and off the field theres a laundry list im not targeting him out of fictional actions) , sure the selectors should have dropped him in the uk and should have , god knows I mentioned it enough then for the team to win more than any other reason much like I selected him in aus for the team so your wrong about all this warner targeting. period. sure when he’s the worst opener over one series he can do something selfless and say im not playing well, im going to deselect. it is an option john sure its not done often but neither is the such abysmal form in 5 test matches where the team has suffered as a consequence. It was worst than mike deness. If a player isn’t making runs full stop (remember it was a record low amount of runs as opener in cricket history then there is something very wrong) he can deselect and it has happened . So theres nothing made up here. Warner was lowest in history of the sport. So my points are all valid. You just target one of them I’ve agreed the selectors should have dropped him first no argument there. I think you’ve gotten a bit OCD over the deselection issue and your not happy I provided evidence but well I did. Next

Where have I ever said I was happy with Warner's selection? Your comprehension skills need some work. My view is that the selectors are to blame for Warner's selection during the Ashes, as players, struggling for form, simply don't step down voluntarily. You claimed players (plural) do. I asked you when was the last time it happened and you responded with Mike Denness in the '74/'75 Ashes. Your own answer validates my point, which is that what you claim Warner should have done, just doesn't happen in modern cricket. So, thank you!

John fact is warner had the worst series in the ashes for opening bat in cricketing history , thats 120 years of cricket . If your happy to accept that then well we can see where your standards are for selecting a test team and your denial of what was reality then. You asked me for an example others have cited a few more examples actually which I have not bothered to look up as its been discussed on here. Time to let go John deselection has happened and warner cost us dearly in England with a drawn series (we could have lost it too at lords) when we should have won the series outright . My view was pertaining to the time period during that series in terms of him being dropped/deselected. I very much said he should have been dropped or deselected neither happened. Of course we know warner is never selfless and the most selfish player in the side so my expectations on him doing anything for the team are low outside of great batting in Australia. I selected him up front for my team in aus where so many of us know he excels. . I had written to many on here with grave concern before the ashes. I was right there and right to select him in Aus. Time for you to move on John we all know what kind of person warner is and that won’t change after all thats transpired.

Who is getting riled up? Aust won with a day to spare which is great for our bowlers especially. Well done Tim Paine! An extra day off at the end of a long year won't hurt them at all.

A single example from 44 years ago... I see you are in total denial about your ridiculous expectation of Warner. Your views are valid because his series was so bad? Is that really your logic? Other openers have have worse series but they have been dropped. Why didn't the selectors drop him then? After all, that is their job. Players don't make that call on form, very often. Your own evidence is over 40 years old and the world was a different place then. I am not saying Warner should have played all 5 ashes tests. I am saying you are completely unreasonable in expecting a player to make decision when selectors won't.